My progress so far and where to go from here (advice needed)

[snowplow]

Hi guys, I just bagged my first traditional harvest! Shot a decent size spike at 22 yards the other day. I couldn't have done it without all the good advice you guys have given me through the last few years!  The setup was a 52# Javaman Helmsdeep 56" static recurve and AD Trad lites with 250 gr Ace Standards.

Through this journey I have learned a ton and tried all sorts of different things. Here is what I 'think' I like so far and maybe you all could help me figure out the next step to move me forward towards better shooting.

What works for me

I really like a 56" bow. I could do a 58" but any longer is definitely a sacrifice for me. 56" is a really nice sweet spot for in and out of the pickup, on the mountain bike handlebars or on the pack without sticking up or down too much. And its super brushy here so that helps a lot.

I really like a static recurve. I think they are my favorite. They draw like a longbow but seem to help with the finger pinch and give a little more speed. I could do a longbow too, but a dynamic recurve is my least favorite 'feel'. I dont like how they feel spongy or 'super smooth'. Just not what I'm used to, maybe I should get used to it. Seems most like that.

I like a fast bow. I am always trying to stretch my distances (which really helps around here, no tree stands) so a flat shooter really helps. This Javaman really smokes an arrow.

What is a challenge for me

This is my biggest issue. I started with split and fingers, and now do tab and 3 under. I shoot 'instinctively' more like splitvision really but really have been unsuccessfully trying to get a 40 yard or less point on. I just cant make it happen. I have tried a ton of different anchors, fixed crawl, longer arrows, heavier points etc. Technically I can crawl to make it happen but with such a short bow it is out of the realm of reality.

I can crawl about a half inch down but much more than that and it makes lots of noise and feels and looks bad. So that's not the best option I dont think. I  have my string nock as high as I can go to help counteract without making bad flight. 

I'm running the highest solid face anchor I can do repeatedly. (pointer finger to corner of mouth) For some reason I cant make middle finger work with a tab.

Full size AD shafts 32" and 10+GPP

I have tried to riser gap and cant make that work so far. (very hard to do with a cant)

The only other thing I know to adjust point on is raising the rest and string nock together, thereby also allowing me to 'crawl' more while my tab is more centered in the string. However this is not an option that I see because the 50's style recurve shelf is more of a wedge cutout vs vertical for a while. So my arrow cant come up without really coming out as well.

Here is where I am at with this

I am a fair instinctive shooter, and this little recurve is the best I have shot. It seems really well setup for intuitive shooting. However, I really want to try to get some solid aiming points. Is there anything I missed?

Which way should I go? Is this just too much of an instinctive rig? I dont want to get rid of it but If I can really improve my shooting I am all ears. Can you guys think of anything to try or should I be looking for a new setup?

Thank you! 

[snowplow]

Should l just cut bait and try a different setup?

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[Captain*Kirk]

You shoot split vision...so did I, for a while. What really turned it around for me was completely blocking out the bow, arrow and point and shooting totally instinctive, blank bale from close up, then working back.
Yes, it took a few weeks and a bunch of shots to adapt, but I no longer worry about trying to gauge distance and adjusting the gap. In doing so, I've limited my effective range somewhat, but I've gained the confidence that within my range I can pretty much put it where I want it to go.
Of course, YMMV but it worked for me.

[snowplow]

Thanks for the advice

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[JD Page]

You sound like you really like your set up and you have been successful (congrats) why do you want to try to fix something that's not broke? I believe you are guilty of over thinking this whole thing. Just my thoughts..

[Captain*Kirk]

Should l just cut bait and try a different setup?

What, exactly, is your goal or goals?

[snowplow]

Very possible. I love my setup. It's damn near perfect for what l do, EXCEPT for the life of me l can't so far get a reasonable point on distance. Ideally l would like a 40 yard point on. I just can't figure it out and lm not sure why it's so easy for others but not me. I am thinking it's the bow type (fast, no elevated rest, short).

I think l would really benefit from an aiming system.

I hope that makes sense to you.

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[slatty]

What is your point on distance? Do you have that figured out?

[Captain*Kirk]

Very possible. I love my setup. It's damn near perfect for what l do, EXCEPT for the life of me l can't so far get a reasonable point on distance. Ideally l would like a 40 yard point on. I just can't figure it out and lm not sure why it's so easy for others but not me. I am thinking it's the bow type (fast, no elevated rest, short).

I think l would really benefit from an aiming system.

I hope that makes sense to you.

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Even if I COULD shoot accurately with consistency out to 40 yards (and I can't) I feel that is beyond the effective kill zone for a 45# bow shooting cedar arrows. At least, enough to guarantee a clean pass-thru. So I don't let that bother me for a hunting bow. Now, a field archery setup...different story altogether.

[Todd Cook]

I know things are different on your side of the Rockies, but maybe more distance isn't the answer. I'm old school, no doubt, but 20 yards to me on a deer sized animal is a long shot. Hunting with trad gear is SUPPOSED to have distance limitations. I'm not saying don't try to become better at distance, because that will make you better up close too. I've always said practice long distance because it really reveals things about your form. I'm not criticizing you, and congrats on the deer! I've just noticed lately a lot of folks (around my neck of the woods too) talking about shots that seem awfully long to me.

[Orion]

Hmmmm.  Pointer finger in the corner of the mouth is a low anchor point.  You won't be able to decrease your point on unless you either raise your anchor or string walk/crawl.  That's just the way to do it.  If you're not willing to do it because it looks or feels weird, (and longer arrows and more point weight didn't do it) you're not going to be able to reduce the point on.

That being said, one needs to have good form to be consistently accurate at longer ranges.  Missing the precise hold/aiming point by just a little results in a pretty large miss at longer distances. 

 

[snowplow]

I'm hearing you guys about the distance. I actually like to hold under a little bit anyway. and so far I'm nowhere close to 40 so if I could get to 40 I'd call myself lucky. If I could get less than that even better.

As far as anchors go, can you guys make a middle finger anchor work with a 3-under tab? Seems like it wasn't working for me but I could try harder.

I just heard about a corner of the nose anchor which I've never thought about before. Are there any other common high anchors but I might not have ran across?

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[slatty]

I use a middle finger corner mouth anchor with a 3 under tab. I believe it’s pretty common. Honestly I didn’t notice much difference going from split to 3 under (but maybe I just don’t shoot well enough).

[Orion]

Some folks shooting three under anchor with the index finger just under the eye.  That's about nose level.  Brings the nock to right under the eye.  That would definitely shorten your point on.  In fact, you might have difficulty reaching a 30-yard point on with an anchor that high. 

Keep in mind, too, that you don't have to shoot the same anchor point all the time.  Some folks vary their anchor point depending on the shot they want to make.  Not the best idea for consistency, I think, though it works for some.  Might want to experiment with it.  Good luck.

[snowplow]

Some folks shooting three under anchor with the index finger just under the eye.  That's about nose level.  Brings the nock to right under the eye.  That would definitely shorten your point on.  In fact, you might have difficulty reaching a 30-yard point on with an anchor that high. 

Keep in mind, too, that you don't have to shoot the same anchor point all the time.  Some folks vary their anchor point depending on the shot they want to make.  Not the best idea for consistency, I think, though it works for some.  Might want to experiment with it.  Good luck.

Thanks a lot I'll check that out

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[slowbowjoe]

I came across an excellent article on aiming by Jim Ploem, maybe a year ago; either here or on the "***********" site. It might be helpful in that it's sort of a blend of instinctive, but with a system of aiming.
I tried to find the link, but can't come up with it; maybe someone here can help with that.

[the rifleman]

i have played around with different anchor points.  I have found that if I get any higher than middle finger corner of mouth, I just cant get proper back tension.  For me this inevitably leads to form issues.

This past year I have started gapping at the bow----wow----my 3d scores have gone through the roof.  My mind was never able to deal with having an arrow tip 14" below the target, but  lining the top of my sideplate up with the target at 15 yards is doable.  Its all a matter of fractions of an inch out to my point on from there.  I like a 12.5 gpp arrow as it gives me plenty of weight for hunting and with my bow my gaps are exactly what I like for 3d and hunting.

Good luck.

[snowplow]

Thanks a lot guys. I'll check into all that. I've been playing around with face walking which was something I've never tried before. I actually have had some mild success with that. Middle finger pretty much to the corner of my nose and about a half-inch crawl gets me to a 30-yard point on and the bow seems to be doing fine with it. The only thing I'm running into so far is it moves my hand out of alignment with my eye just enough so I keep hitting left. I know I should be able to tune brace height and move it over but if I remember correctly I didn't have much success with that with these arrow dynamics trad lites but it's been quite a while since I messed with it and I ran out of time that day. So I'll try that and if it doesn't work, that's why I'm considering different arrows. For one because I know I can move those all around with brace height and it'll move them closer into the shelf. The big end of the trad lites are pretty large so going to a skinny shaft or an axis or something like that I would think would make a pretty significant difference. Also my arrow would sit down on the rest further which if I'm thinking about it correctly is moving in the right direction also for a shorter point on distance.

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[snowplow]

I just noticed that the black eagle vintage arrows are 34"! That's 2 or more inches longer than most others. Am l correct on thinking that 2" more arrow should make a big difference in your point on?

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