Rotational Draw, back tension, and draw length

[Sojurn]

I've been listening to podcasts with Tom Clum Sr. and videos with Arne Moe. What they describe as back tension and how to get there with a rotational draw has me concerned. (With my own form)
Mr. Clum was describing some of the side effects of pulling with the shoulder as hitting the cheek or having to move the head out of the way during the draw, and as he's doing this dread begins to set in.
Here's my concern. I already draw to about 30 inches and I MUST shoot full length arrows. If draw in what Mr. Moe calls a Rotational Draw (and I believe he and Mr. Clum are preaching the same thing here) I'm going to end up with a draw length ing the neighborhood of 32 inches, and my anchor point is going to be near my ear.
I have to be missing something here right? When everyone else reaches full draw, do you have room to be able to keep pulling back? Or are you at your limit?

[moebow]

Yes, Sojurn, Tom and I basically advocate the same thing.  We are both trying to get folks to learn that the bone structure held at full draw is what we are trying for.  When the bones get aligned, your draw length is what it is, based on your bone structure.  I wonder at your statement about continuing to "pull back."  Pulling back in what we are teaching is NOT away from the target, it is perpendicular to the line of the arrow TO the target.

Now a couple questions.  IF you are really pulling 30", you must be over 6'3" tall or greater?  If not that tall, likely you are not drawing with a rotational or angular draw and using the bones as your base.  Using our method, moving up to 32" (from 30") is not at all likely, again, IF you are doing it correctly.

I see you are in Minnesota, where?  Please, if you can or want, come and see me here in Grand Rapids.  I believe I can get you going in an hour or two and I NEVER charge!!  Your only cost is getting here.

The rotational draw is not easy to learn just from video or typed words, but not hard with hands on coaching.  Let me know.

Arne

[Sojurn]

Thank you for the invitation Arne, I've been meaning to get up to you but getting a weekend off is tough in my line of work. I will be coming g to see you though, hopefully soon.
  I'm not a tall person, I'm just under 6 feet but when I get excited and draw my bow, if I'm not paying attention I can easily run my broadhead into my fingers.  I think I'll try posting some videos or at least some photos tonight.

[moebow]

I'm 6'2.5" tall and draw 29.5".  It just depends on your structure but at your stated height, 29" at best seems about right.  Videos will help and when/if you can get here, please do.  Sounds like you are using way too much biceps in your draw, especially when you mention string hand back at your ear.

If you want, post your videos to my email.  [email protected]  Or here if you want the discussion public on Tradgang.  Either way.

Arne

[Sojurn]

If I need to reshoot these videos I'm happy to do so.

My regular shot


Rotational Draw, with percieved bone alignment anchor

[moebow]

The big thing I see here is you are not keeping your bow arm 90 degrees to your spine.  When shooting at a low target, draw on the horizon (level) then bend at the waist to keep that 90 degree angle!!

[Sojurn]

Excellent point. Is there anything else obvious you can see?

[Terry Green]

HH was a master of the rotational draw....

His wasn't 'over the top' but horizontal instead.

 There was no sliding down and hitting the cheek it all came around and met together in unison.

[Sojurn]

I'll be watching some Howard Hill videos then. Thank you.