Hold over or hold under steep angle tragets

[Huntschool]

OK, so....  a few days ago I was talking with some shooting buds about shooting at steep angles.  Seemed like there were all kinds of answers.  I know what I try to do but what does everyone else do when you are shooting either up hill or down hill (45* or better) from a tree stand or on a 3D course.

Inquiring minds want to know......

Thanks

[GCook]

I don't do either I bend at the waist.

[bucknut]

What Cook said!

[Huntschool]

Interesting.....

[Skipmaster1]

Maintain form and shoot... but really on steep shots you cut distances

[Huntschool]

Skipmaster1:

Maintaining form is #1 (which means bending at waist to maintain the line from elbow through arrow as opposed to just lowering bow arm) but are you saying the shot will be less distance which would require the shooter to shoot low at a given yardage to compensate either up hill or down hill ?

[McDave]

As others have said, it is important to bend at the waist and maintain good shoulder alignment, or the magic “T”, as it is called.  However, it is also important to take the angle into account when aiming, because the trajectory of the arrow is based on the horizontal distance to the target rather than the line of sight distance.  So for example if you are shooting down out of a tree stand at a 45* angle, you should aim as if the distance were the horizontal distance from the base of the teee to the target.  For me at least, this means I have to compensate by aiming about 6” low on a deer sized target at 20 yards line of sight distance.  As with everything, nothing beats practice under the conditions you’ll be shooting, as YMMV.

[Skipmaster1]

Skipmaster1:

Maintaining form is #1 (which means bending at waist to maintain the line from elbow through arrow as opposed to just lowering bow arm) but are you saying the shot will be less distance which would require the shooter to shoot low at a given yardage to compensate either up hill or down hill ?

Yes. It’s the horizontal distance that you need to shoot

[Friend]

I bend at the waist and shoot the horizontal distance.

[Skipmaster1]

This shows what it looks like.

[Bobaru]

The three sides of a 45 degree triangle are 1:1:1.41.  So, if you are 20 feet in a tree shooting at a deer that is 20 feet away from you according to a ground measurement, then the flight path will be 28.2 feet. 

If you put your range finder on the deer, it would measure 28.2 feet.  However, you should aim at that deer as if you were travelling across the ground - that is, you should aim at the deer as if you were shooting at a target of 20 feet distant.

20 feet is 6.67 yards.  28.2 feet is 9.4 yards.  Try on the ground to see the difference in your aiming point between the two distances.  The aiming point will be almost indistinguishable between the two.

The shooting discussed above is 45 degrees from a 20 foot high treestand only.

As the distance to the deer across the ground becomes longer (with treestand at 20 feet high), the angle becomes less and the modification between ground distance and arrow flight path becomes less. 

The real worry is that a deer is very close to the tree.  A person isn't accustomed to shooting a distance across the ground of three feet, whereas the arrow travels 20 feet. 

If you are shooting instinctively, the only solution to this problem is to do lots of practice at treestand height, shooting at targets ranging from just under your tree to whatever the max distance you choose for yourself.  You will find that the modifications from being on the ground aren't that significant.  It's mostly that it is a different feel and look. 

The most important issue is to maintain good shooting form as the angle to the ground changes as others have discussed in this thread.

[Huntschool]

Good stuff folks....  Keep it coming if ya want in on this conversation.

[dnovo]

I’ve been doing it too long. I just bend and shoot the deer. If you have trouble with shooting out of a stand at a deer that’s close to you, just practice. At first it’s a conscious effort to bend at the waist and aim low. It’s like bowfishing. Learning where to aim.

[Daniel G. Banting]

As has been alluded to, Gravity affects objects in flight on a lateral plane. It is the lateral distance an arrow (or bullet ) travels that determines the trajectory and subsequent impact. It is hard to get your head around the idea as your brain is influenced by distance.

A good example: years ago when the earth's crust was still hardening and I was young, I help set up a shoot at our local archery club. The target that I had a hand in setting up was a Grouse target set at the base of a very tall Black Spruce tree at a distance of about 8 or 9 yards. There were then two more higher in the tree on a pulley system ( think like on a flag pole ). I'm not sure exactly how high these two additional targets were at but I would guess 20 and 50 feet.

When the shoot was over the biggest topic of conversation ( often heated ) was whether you had needed to be shooting higher or lower at the two targets up the tree. The debate came to an abrupt end when the only sight shooter at the shoot and the only one who had pin wheeled all three was asked HER opinion she said "I held my 10 yard pin on all the targets!!

[Daniel G. Banting]

PS. And yes, it is a priority to maintain your form, it is easy to over or under draw when shooting at extreme angles up or down.

[Huntschool]

Thanks to everyone who responded to this thread.  This topic seems to come up in discussion frequently.

Just to put a point on it....  Way back when, as Daniel G alluded to, I did a bunch of calculations using basic math and the right angle triangle thing A squared +B squared = C squared....  I was surprised with the outcome but went with it and also found out the numbers were so close that altering hold on target had little to do with it.  Get the distance to point and shoot it just like you would at a given distance horizontally.  Worked for me with good form and definitely bending at the waist on down hill shots.  Up hill was much the same but bending back a bit and maintaining that straight line through the arrow with elbow and front hand.

Again, thanks....

[Skipmaster1]

Thanks to everyone who responded to this thread.  This topic seems to come up in discussion frequently.

Just to put a point on it....  Way back when, as Daniel G alluded to, I did a bunch of calculations using basic math and the right angle triangle thing A squared +B squared = C squared....  I was surprised with the outcome but went with it and also found out the numbers were so close that altering hold on target had little to do with it.  Get the distance to point and shoot it just like you would at a given distance horizontally.  Worked for me with good form and definitely bending at the waist on down hill shots.  Up hill was much the same but bending back a bit and maintaining that straight line through the arrow with elbow and front hand. 


Again, thanks....

I’m most cases it’s really close but when you start shooting in steep terrain or in my case trees in steep terrain it makes a difference. If I’m 35’ above a trail on my downhill side at 10 yards, it seems a lot farther than 10 yards. The uphill side might only be 18’ high at 10 yards. That seems much closer.

[Huntschool]

Skipmaster1:

Having grown up just across the Hudson from you in Bergen Co. NJ I find your tree height interesting if not scary....  LOL.  I hunted Rockland and Orange CO on the West side of the river back in the 60's.  Some pretty nice deer around.  Turkeys were un heard of back then.

Some of the biggest deer I saw in that area back then were right near the old Tappan Zee bridge on the West side.....

Shoot straight.

[Skipmaster1]

This is a lot of the terrain I hunt. There are some good deer. Especially if you are after age over inches. I’ve killed quite a few over 6.5 years old. Turkeys are hit and miss.