tuning new firefly vs BW - what is up?

[KSdan]

Okay guys- I shoot a BW SA recurve.  55# at 31" draw.  I use GT trads 5575.  I am shootng 32" arrows with 250gr on the front end.

Now- got this new Firefly LB- what a beauty!  Okay- 56# at 31".  I try the same arrow above and it comes in (with the Adcock tuning method) as the spine is too weak.  Yes I said "too weak."  So the Firefly is hitting harder than the BW 'curve??  

What's up with that?  Is there more to it?

In an effort to keep shooting the 5575s (bought a bunch from Sipsey- great company!).  I am having to drop the point wt. down by 25-50 grains.  That puts my arrow in at around 500 gr for the Firefly.  That sure seems too light.

Thoughts???

[hickstick]

do you have enough room between the 32"shaft and 31" draw to shorten the shaft a bit?  that stiffen it up too...

[KSdan]

Yup- just double checked it and I am just drawing over 30- maybe 30.5.  That would give me 1.75" to play with.  Still suprised the Firefly seems to shoot harder than the BW.  I will need to seriously experiment more here.

Thanks

[JRY309]

I think some of it has to do,you are shooting two different bows.The BW is most likely cut past center,is the Firefly cut the same? Did you put them through a chrono to see which one is faster.Different bows will bareshaft differently even if they are close to the same poundage.

[KSdan]

trad shooter- never heard of a chrono. . . just kidding   .  No- never used one.  

But the Firefly sure looks like it spits it as good as the BW.  Really amazing to me.  In fact, the trajectory/cast at 30 yds looks better than the BW. I kept shooting over the target looking for it to drop in.

Lots more experimenting to do over the next few days.  I probably should have waited before asking the first question. My initial observations are quite remarkable though.

[jesse cales]

widows are cut 3/16 past center.the firefly probably isn't cut as far,so would take a stiffer shaft.

[wtpops]

Comes in at right around 9 gpp, sounds ok to me. Everybody likes 10 to 12 but nothing wrong with 9 if she is shooting good, fast and flat.

Also as jdc said the shelf on the widow is 3/16 past center and will take a wide selection of shafts. I dont know the Firefly

[KSdan]

Valuable about past center- did not know about those dynamics- makes better sense.

Thanks guys. . .one of the best resources I know of. . . with virtually no whining and ridiculous debate. . . WHAT A SITE.

Dan

[BrianH]

It seems to me to be the opposite.  If a bow isn't cut to center it should need a weaker arrow, so that it can paradox around the bow.  Most non-center shot longbows require an arrow spine close to, or even weaker than the bow's poundage.

[Chuck Nesset]

Dan, I just got my new FireFly a couple of weeks ago with two sets of 64" limbs. I was very surprised at the speed of the bow with both sets. I thought I would shoot the 52# set through my chrono against my favorite 50#, 60" recurve.

The results were very surprising. The FireFly averaged 175, 176 FPS and the recurve averaged 172 FPS with a 540 gr cedar. Both bows had FF strings and string silencers. I have a 28" draw.

I never would have thought that Jim's longbow with ordinary limb materials (no carbon or ACS cross section) would out shoot a high $$ well known and respected recurve.

I have also shot some 29 1/4", 35-55 Gold Tip carbons with 250 grain up front and am getting great speed, penetration and arrow flight with them.

I am fortunate to live fairly close to Jim and have been watching his progress as a bowyer for quite a few years. A couple of months ago I was in his shop and drew a bow that he was working on. That bow made up my mind that it was finally time to place an order.

I'm sure I was one of the last holdouts in our local area. Most of the guys around here have one or two of Jim's bows and I think one our friends has 14.

To say that I am very pleased with my new bow and Jim's workmanship would be an understatement. I've been at this game since 1959, so have shot a lot of bows over the years, and probably have 80 plus in my basement. So I don't think my enthusiasm can be totally categorized as "New Bow Syndrome".

If I can get my computer genius wife to help post some pictures of my bow on this site I will.

Dan enjoy your new bow and I think you will be pleasantly surprised when you finally shoot yours through a chronograph.

 

[bigcountry]

I recently faced the same issue.  I shoot 5575's out of my 60# zipper but when i went to a 66 BW longbow, I had to drop from 200gr point to 125gr, and FOC was so low, I could see poor arrow flight when shooting 30 yards.  And bareshaft showed good with 125gr points but I needed more wieght.  I had to go to 7595 with almost 300gr up front.  

From most computer programs like ontarget2, I should have been fine just droping the point weight from 200gr to 175gr.  Also the BW isn't cut exactly to center but the zipper is.  

But then I chron'd and that kinda told the tale. with both shooting 10gr/lb draw, the BW longbow is faster than my zipper.  The BW had only a 16strand D97 string and that made alot of difference also.  I put on a 20strand 452 string I had all the sudden arrows that were weak were now stiff.  But I only lost 2fps at most.

[Bird Dog]

When I purchased my Firefly from Tim at Braveheart he indicted the Firefly was cut to center. My limbs are just actionwood and sassafras but the bow  smokes an arrow.

[Drew]

I'm not much help with the carbon arrows Dan as I just started using them.

My FireFly is 51@28, and I'm pulling her to at least 29.

I got my CE Heritage 150's cut down to 31" with a 50 grain insert and 125 grain point and they fly like darts!!

[KSdan]

Drew- I think I am going to be in that ball park as well.  Do you know how the hertigae 150 compares to the GT trad 5575s?  I am really thinking that I will cut my  32" down to 31 and 200 on the front end like you.  I am guessing this will be the ticket.

My only complication at this point is cutting down carbons-not really set up for it.

Good to see a number of you from MI-  that is my home of 35 years!  Family still up there. . .

Dan

[Drew]

here's the specs on the two..

          GPI   Spine    Dia
CE 150's  10    0.487"  0.300"
GT 55/75  9.3   0.400"  0.302"

Dan if you get back here to MI, give me a yell it would be nice to meet ya!

[KSdan]

Thanks. . . do I understand it corrently that the CE is a little stiffer?

I was just up there spekaing in various venues.  I will be back up in June. Jim J. and I will be hunting together in Sept.

Dan

[Drew]

I think the GT are "stiffer" by spine, but I'm not sure how the weight(GPI) plays into it...since the GT's weigh less.   :confused:  

Confused yet...no wonder I love my woodies!