3-Under on a Split Bow

[Wolf1007]

Gang,

Good morning. Would appreciate some input/insight...I am going back and forth on shooting 3-under or split. I grew up shooting split, but have been toying with 3-under a lot this summer. I like the way 3-under feels and it shoots nicely, but it puts a ton of extra limb bend in my bows which are all tillered for split.

I shoot instinctively and do not use a gap system in any way, I do not see any real difference so far in shooting performance or accuracy. My main concern is bow/arrow performance with the added lower limb bend going from split to 3-under on a split tillered bow. On some of my bows, it is pretty exaggerated.

Have made the necessary nock adjustments and and can get good arrow flight with each, but really not a fan of the lower limb thing, thoughts?

Thanks!

Jim

[Pine]

Put an elevated rest about 3/4 - 1" up
That will keep the tiller in the same spot.

[Orion]

What Pine says is true, but you're really not moving your draw hand that much in switching to three under. Given that one tends to raise the nock point for 3-under, the ring finger is maybe a half-inch lower on the string.  Yes, it will increase lower limb bend a tad, but usually not enough to visually notice.  Sounds like some other change in your form also might have occurred. The way you grip the bow or a change in where pressure is exerted on the grip, a change in anchor point, perhaps. If you're shooting very short bows with a long draw length, I suppose it might be noticeable, but folks have been making that switch for ages, and I've yet to read where they've noticed a substantial change in limb bend. Enough to affect limb timing and noise, yes, but usually not enough to see ("a ton of extra limb bend").

BTW, how do you manage to see the bend in the lower limb when you're shooting the bow?  Pretty hard to do.  Maybe the changes you make to shoot 3-under just give the impression that limb bend has changed substantially.  Maybe you can see it better/from a slightly different perspective shooting one way vs. the other.  I dunno.  It's got me stumped.   

[JohnnyBa]

I like the info in this and hopefully to come, as I just do not get a grasp on the difference between what happens to bow and string angles when making such a small change from split to 3under or visa versa. I see and read peeps saying this exact thing when switching and I have done it myself, but I just do not see the big deal, I don’t have to raise nock height much, especially now that my release is smoother than before.
I get where the center of the bow runs about 1.5”’s below shelf. Why is this? I just know it is but know of no reason why. Seems that the arrow should be launched from the center and any deviation from that will affect the amount one limb pulls over another, but is it enough to cause damage to limbs. What does an even tillered bow do when shot split and 3under using same 1/2 - 3/4” nock point. When you watch peeps make self bows the mount on a tiller tree, centered on the handle and tiller the limbs equally. Just don’t really see what is happening I guess. What did Sitting Bull and the like do about tillering? Lol, the killed a bunch of cowboys without it is my guess.

[Wolf1007]

Orion,

Thanks for the response. Noticed it while filming myself for form and arrow flight. It is not as bad on my 60" Stalker, but when I shoot my 58" Dale Dye Medicine point, it is super noticeable. I am not really interested in damaging a bow I can no longer get repaired and I am not interested in shooting different styles for different bows.

Now that you mentioned it, I am going to go back and look at the video and see if I am putting an excess of heel pressure into the bottom of the grip and see if that is causing it.

More to follow! 

[BigJim]

It won't hurt the bow.. and as long as you are tuning for nock height,  the bow should shoot fine either way. In my experience, i think many people don't go high enough on nock height.. good flight .. or bad flight can be deceiving. Nock height is also a personal thing and shouldn't be chosen by preference, or what someone else does or thinks.

There are many things that depict what nock height your specific bow needs and it's all about getting both limbs to return in time, not how the arrow looks at rest on your bow.
BigJim

[Kirkll]

Big Jim nailed it here… split or 3 under shouldn’t make much difference, and nothing a little nock height and rest height adjustment can’t take care of. The only time this may create a timing issue is you are heeling down on the grip a lot and putting a lot more pressure on the the lower limb. 

A lot of ASL bows are shot like this with lower hand pressure, or more even hand pressure on the riser, but this bow design typically has a higher shelf location too.

You may want to try and adjust your grip pressure a wee bit, and see if it makes a difference. Try shooting with an open grip and shift a bit more pressure to the web of your hand than the thumb pad and see what it does….  Food for thought.   Kirk

[Michpatriot]

What Pine says is true, but you're really not moving your draw hand that much in switching to three under. Given that one tends to raise the nock point for 3-under, the ring finger is maybe a half-inch lower on the string.  Yes, it will increase lower limb bend a tad, but usually not enough to visually notice.  Sounds like some other change in your form also might have occurred. The way you grip the bow or a change in where pressure is exerted on the grip, a change in anchor point, perhaps. If you're shooting very short bows with a long draw length, I suppose it might be noticeable, but folks have been making that switch for ages, and I've yet to read where they've noticed a substantial change in limb bend. Enough to affect limb timing and noise, yes, but usually not enough to see ("a ton of extra limb bend").

BTW, how do you manage to see the bend in the lower limb when you're shooting the bow?  Pretty hard to do.  Maybe the changes you make to shoot 3-under just give the impression that limb bend has changed substantially.  Maybe you can see it better/from a slightly different perspective shooting one way vs. the other.  I dunno.  It's got me stumped.   

I'm shooting a Bear Supermag "48" 48# @28" drawn to 29" 3 under with almost a full inch of nock height off the shelf with no problems whatsoever. Also same setup on the exact bow in 40#. I gave it some thought even videoed my shots from the side..haven't looked back. Its fine for me.

[Crooked Stic]

What Jim sez. I build all mine with even tiller. Then adjust nock as needed.Most look atmy setup and sayyour nock is too high. But it is what works for me and usually quiter.