Should have listened - now what?

[longbowhntr]

Michael,

Quick question, sir. You say it is 54#. Is that what the bow is marked at 28 inches or is that the actual weight at your draw length? You probably know this but if it 54#@28" and your pulling farther than 28" you are pulling more weight than 54#.

Good luck sir!!

David

[Orion]

Good advice on all the options for changing weight, should you need to.  However, given your newness at this, it's very possible you just haven't developed good trad shooting form, and thus your shooting is eratic.  A lighter bow won't help unless somebody shows you what good form is.  I echo what Greg says.  Go to some trad shoots and watch others, ask questions.  You'll get a lot of help.  Good luck.

[TonyW]

One of your shots is always better than the others in each group, right? When you shoot that one, stop for a second and think. Try to remember how the release felt, how much you canted the bow, and how you picked the spot on the target.

Don't worry about 20 yards, try 8 yards. Shoot four arrows, relax, walk to the target. The groups will get closer, and you will start to shoot farther. I really don't think there is a formula that fits everybody, but if you enjoy flinging arrows, the groups will tighten.

[Daddy Bear]

There are draw techniques that may be easier to pull weight than others, such as the swing draw. And there are position/stance techniques that bring more back muscle into play, such as a closed stance. I'd suggest you get some feedback from a coach or experienced shooter to help determine if it is an issue that can be corrected with better technique and execution. If it is not and you are indeed struggling with the weight, I'd side with SteveB in that sticking with the weight at this point may be an exercise in frustration.

I will say that a slightly closed stance greatly helped my daughter as this enabled her to get more back muscles into the draw.

later,
Daddy Bear

[Bonebuster]

Try not to be discouraged... don`t give up.

Being a big guy, you are probably drawing more than 28 inches, and thus more than 54lbs.

If you have not already, try getting close to the target, and shoot only ONE arrow at a time. Shoot at a VERY small target. Like maybe a 1/4" black dot in a paper plate, at say, four yards.

If you are trying to shoot instinctively, your concentration level MUST be EXTREME. It is just as
important as form in my opinion. It is also more difficult to learn than good form, in my opinion.
Shooting at a tiny dot may help.

If you see all your shots are hitting near the black dot,... back up a step. And so on.

If you find that it is hard to hit near the dot from up close with any regularity, then you may indeed be overbowed.

I just did this excersize with my son, as he was suddenly having a hard time hitting consistently.
After watching him shoot, it was obvious it was not his form. After a few days, his shooting improved greatly.

Whenever I begin to see my groups spread, I step up close for a few shots, and it always seems to help.

If you are experiencing discomfort when you shoot, or soreness after you shoot, then draw weight probably is a problem. The good news is, forty pounds of draw weight, and a four hundred grain arrow is good medicine for whitetails.

I urge you to not get discouraged. Sometimes the hill gets steep, but you can`t beat the view when you get to the top.

Don`t be surprised if twenty yards turns out to ALWAYS be a long shot. Targets don`t move and duck. I can hammer targets out to and beyond twenty yards, but I rarely release an arrow at that range.

Regardless of how good of a shot you become, or how fast you learn to shoot well, your new recurve will teach you to be a better HUNTER quicker.

Try not to be discouraged... never give up.

[George D. Stout]

First of all 54 pounds is a lot of weight when you are learning to shoot.  I would go to 45 and work to get those muscles in tune and build form. You can hunt with the 45 if you feel you are confident enough.  It's easy for someone who shoots 55 or 60 to say it's not much weight...we too soon forget what it's like to be a beginner in a new genre.  Drop the weight and work on form.  It will come more quickly and then you can build up to the 54 pound limbs later.

[Jedimaster]

When I started shooting recurves I didn't know anyone else shooting trad at that time.  Didn't have a computer and there certainly wasn't any sites like this.  I was mostly on my own, although I had been shooting various old bows many years just for fun.  So I wasn't a completely lost.  Here's the point: If there was any one piece of advice I wish I could have heard to improve my shooting, it would be to drop down in weight.  I was shooting 60# when I should have been at 45-50#.  Like you I felt plenty strong, but my form would have improved and I would have been much less frustrated if I just knew that one thing.  I recognize one size don't fit all so take it as a thought and not the gospel.

[hvyhitter]

Sounds more like a problem with a consistant shooting style or a form/follow through problem. You didnt state your bow length either...a short bow is harder to shoot consistant. Going from 70 to 54 isnt all that much of a stretch.

[SteveB]

Going from 70 to 54 isnt all that much of a stretch.  

With a 70 pd compound, you hold back 14 to 25 lbs.
HUGH difference between that and 54 (or more with longer draw).

Steve

[wihill]

Maddog, Welcome aboard!

I just joined up not too long ago, and though that switching from my binary cammed 70+#er to a 50# recurve would be a piece of cake - boy was I wrong.    

I have no problems pulling it back, but holding it comfortably to get set into the shot (which I do for my compounds) just wasn't working.  I tried for a week, slowly working up in reps, but I found that I tired quickly and form went to crap in a hurry.  Lost three aluminums, a few pieces of wood in the backstop and brought some laughs from the neighbors.  

I went with your option 2, as my 50# recurve is a single piece, not a takedown.  If I had a takedown, I'd just have gotten new limbs - I'd hate to relearn my grip on the riser once I went up in poundage.  
  My new (to me) one is a 40# Takedown, with additional limbs availible for very reasonable money.  With a 450gr arrow I hope to be profiencent enough this fall to go hunting, but like yourself, I need to get comfortable at 20yrds first.

Have fun with it!

[Steelhead]

Relax and give it more time.The learning curve is gonna take some time.a 45 #er would be great.Get a few videos or Cds like Masters of the Barebow etc.Work on good form and technique.Thats gonna be easier with a lighter bow,no doubt.You might consider a slightly longer bow as well during this period for smoothness and less finger pinch.This should help you build confidence and get those postive results you are looking for that keep the frustation level to a minimum

A bow thats too heavy could be couterproductive in the initial learning stage.It could create bad habits and ingrain poor muscle memory thats harder to overcome.Things like short drawing,snap shooting,loss of back tension,a claw like drawing hand,inability to focus, etc.

The 1st year season I hunted trad I only was going to shoot out to 15 yards or so.By my 2nd season I was good out to 25 yards.

Thier is alot to learn and I am sure you will improve alot more quickly with a smooth easy drawing bow that allows you to work on proper shot execution.I am still working on it 15 years later.Keep after it.

[GingivitisKahn]

Somewhat cheaper than a coach or a new bow (and money that you may find you want to spend anyway), is the outstanding book _Instinctive_Shooting_Vol_2_
 by G. Fred Asbell, available from 3Rivers Archery for a measly $24.99 (     http://www.3riversarchery.com/Product.asp?c=42&s=18&p=92&i=7862     ).

Volume 1 is great as well, but if I wanted to buy only one book, it would be volume 2.  Follow his instructions and he'll have you shooting properly in short order.  

My big question for you is - how long are you holding your recurve at full draw?  As you well know, if you want to hold a bow at full draw for any length of time, that 70# compound will be *much* easier than your 54# recurve.  

If you are hanging it out there for any length of time trying to get lined up on your target, you are using up your muscle resources much more quickly than you would if you get on target quickly and drop the string with as little delay as possible.

I think listening to Asbell (or a good coach, etc.) can help you get on target and drop the string much more quickly without snap shooting.

[John Nail]

I havn't read all the posts, so forgive me if I reiterate:

If you switched from a compound to a recurve, and didn't completely change your style, I suspect that is the problem. You don't shoot them alike at all. A stickbow should be canted a little, not held straight up. You need to develope the proper draw-anchor-release sequence. Not point at the sky, draw, and lower to target.
If you shot the compound with a release, you will need to work a LOT on your hand release.
The best thing would be to get some help with it, if there's a Trad club in your area.
54 lbs AT YOUR DRAW should not be too much for a young, strong guy, after a full summer's shooting.

[jimmerc]

I'M WITH JAREDS, A FEW YEARS BACK I HAD THE SAME TROUBLE, A COUPLE THINGS I TRIED ONE WAS LIKE JARED SAID,BUT ALITTLE DIFFERENT, I WOULD GO OUT TO MY RANGE DRAW ON MY TARGET FROM 10 PACES FOCUSING ON THE SPOT I WANT TO HIT DRAW AND LOCK INTO MY ANCHOR,AND HOLD FOR 3 TO 6 SEC. LET DOWN, AND REPEAT 3 TIMES!I DID THIS FOR 3 DAYS! THEN I WOULD INCREASE HOLD TIME TO 6TO 10 SEC 3 TO 4 MORE DAYS. THE NEXT WEEK I WOULD START OUT ONE SET HOLDING 6 TO 10 THEN I WOULD SHOOT TWO ROUNDS OF 6 ARROWS FROM 10 PACES HOLDING 3 TO 6 SEC AND FOCUSING ON THAT SPOT AND FORM, THEN I JUST KEPT INCREASING SHOTS EVERY PRATICE SESSION BUT ONLY BY A FEW ARROWS AT A TIME, ALSO INCREASED YARDS! IF FOR SOME REASON I COULDN'T SHOOT I JUST PICKED UP THE BOW AND DREW TO  ANCHOR AND HELD TO KEEP MUCLE MEMERIOY! I DO THIS STILL TODAY! WORKED FOR ME! WISH YOU LUCK AND HAPPY HUNTING!!

[Jason Jelinek]

Use your bow as a weight system.  Draw it back and hold for as long as you can without shooting.  Rest and do it again 14 more times.  If you can build up to holding it 30 seconds at one time.  You're ready.  I think in a 2 week period doing this every day you will either build yourself up to it or need to order lighter limbs.  The lighter limbs aren't a bad idea in the long run anyway.

I just read that jared s gave you the same advice.  It's worked for me both right and left handed.

Jason

[BMOELLER]

After shooting 62# for so long, i got a set of 47# at my draw and I love it.  Tried to go back to 62 after a couple weeks and it felt like pulling 100# back.   Took a few rounds to get back in the swing.   I'm thinking I'll just use the 47's most of the time anyway.

[Shawn Leonard]

George has it, I am a big strong guy and shot 80#s for years and when I hunted with a compound 90#s was my starter bow.(18years old)I now shoot 51-55#s due to two bad shoulders. I can still sho0ot 80#s for an arrow or two and shoot well, but only because I have developed decnt form from years of shooting. Go light and learn proper from and a real good release. You will be shooting that heavier bow in a short time just as well as a light one! Shawn

[Maddog 66]

I haven't been able to get back to this site in a couple of weeks but I would like to thank everyone very much for their input and great advice.  

I printed out the whole string of responses and tacked it up in my "man cave" because some of them are so in-depth that I'm afraid may not understand them properly until I get through another few thousand arrows.  Know what I mean?

P.S.  I just printed out a membership form for the Wi Trad Archers....if they are a reflection of the group here, then I might have just found the "right" bowhunting org. for me.

[Tom L]

Get 5 or 6 yds from the target. Nock an arrow. Close your eyes YES close your eyes. Draw and shoot while thinking only about your form. Don't worry about where you hit. Just work on form. You will be supprised how tight your groups will get. Do this 2 times as much as you shoot for bullseye and do it first. Everytime you shoot. You can't build form trying trying hit a target. And you can't hit a target if you don't have good form. Howard Hill worked on form every day. If he needed it we all do.

[OsageBowyer]

your gonna be OK... here are three tips that helped me make the switch
1. find a safe and soft back stop cuz arrows aint cheap.
2. find a good target I like a heavy boot box stuffed with news print and wraped in duct tape
3. with six arrows start out at 10 yrds when you can put all six in the box without fail move back 5 yrds and repeat(remember don't hold your draw for longer than it takes to find your point of aim and shoot for a spot on the target not just the box.
Good luck and don't give up...you can do it!