Exotics

[Interseptor]

Do you consider the hunting of Red Deer, Sika Deer, and any of the other Exotics as a can hunt?  And what about the elk in Texas?

[FerretWYO]

There are some of those animals that are free ranging in places in texas.

[Jedimaster]

Sika deer have inhabited the marsh areas of Maryland since the early 1900's.  They are free roaming and have a reputation of being a difficult critter to hunt (habitat).  A quick google search turned up an article of interest:
 http://www.dnr.state.md.us/wildlife/sikadeer.asp

So no, not canned

[Dave2old]

If they're feral -- wild, running loose in big wild country -- and esp. if they're considered pests, as feral hogs (domestic and esp. European)are these days, for example, and so long as we eat what we kill, I view hunting exotics as morally justified and in some cases even good and necessary, as when hogs (for instance) take over and destroy habitat needed for native American wildlife. But if we're paying to hunt exotics behind high fences -- animals that wre consistently imported and/or bred for sale, as it were -- that's a whole different story and it bores me at the least. I expect this thread to be pulled real soon! But it's an important question to ask, 'loper, thank you. Dave  :rolleyes:

[Bob Walker]

Not sure why the species hunted would determine whether the hunt is a canned hunt or not. A whitetail in a high fenced area is no different than an exotic inside a high fence. Conversly, like Dave states, if it is free ranging, regardless of the species, I don't think it is a canned hunt.

On another note, the reason that these types of threads usually gets pulled is not the topics discussed but rather when one member gets on his or her soapbox and begins degrading other members due to differences in opinion. Keep it civil and adhere to the green banner at the top of this forum and there should be no problems.........

[Jedimaster]

You make two very good points Bob.  I would venture that at this point there are as many high fenced whitetail operations as there are exotics.  Just guessing.  Good topic and hope this plays out without bickering.  

[MikeW]

Do you consider the hunting of Red Deer, Sika Deer, and any of the other Exotics as a can hunt?

Depends on the size area they are in and I don't see what species has to do with it.

A can hunt to me is when you have farm raised animals and they are put into a pasture right before you show up. Some of the high fenced or fenced ranches here in Texas are bigger than some of the county's some folks hunt/live in.

On the higher pressured ranches that are hunted almost on a daily bases I guarantee you the animals there are way harder to hunt than any public free ranging animal.

Personally I would prefer to hunt free public land but you do what you have to do to hunt where you live.

Hunting to me is all about getting out in Mother
Nature and enjoying yourself, the animal and the kill is just icing on the cake.
   

[Gehrke145]

If it's legal have at it!  Like some said above they can be a blast to hunt in the right setting

[Texas Tinman]

Exotics? Anytime and everytime that I get the chance to hunt a property that I feel will be a challenging hunt for me.

I hope to hunt RSA someday too.

However, species does make a difference to me??? I have no interest in hunting elk in my home state unless we get lucky enough to be able to hunt them in the Davis Mountains in the future. There are some free ranging elk in West Texas even though they are (wrongly, IMO) classified as an exotic by Texas Parks & Wildlife.

I feel the same about hunting WT on a preserve setting...not for me but if it's legal, I'll support your right to do it all day long.

[TomMcDonald]

Ferals is all I hunt. We're not allowed to hunt natives (except kangaroos which are in pest proportions in some areas, though a culling licence is required).

[Jerry Jeffer]

I always thought "canned Hunt" meant closed in area. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

[hawgslayer]

[Swamp Pygmy]

well no, not like fish in a barrel. Like fish in a small pond.

There are many places that are maybe fifty to two hundred acres and fenced and filled with a large amount of animals. There is a near 100% chance of a shot especially over a feeder, but its not like a pen. No.

My personal only restriction is size. I hunt marsh islands and areas surrounded by serious urban development. So I think it would be very hypocritical to point a finger at a guy who has 30,000 acres fenced and I hunt an island or a small patch of woods in a metropolis a fraction of the size of his land. After all deer aren't going to swim to a new habitat or go bounding through suburban backyards to get away from me. Almost everyone's property is confined in one way or another. Few of us are hunting endless tracts of woods anymore. So whats the big deal if its fenced to stop hogs from getting in, or exotics from getting out?

When you manage the habitat in such a way as to increase the numbers of deer naturally sustainable on a land, and run cull frames, and are aware of many bucks on the property from year to year it starts looking like a perverse form of farming. But I'm not against people fencing land to get better habitat. I'm just against deer farms whether they have fences or not.

After all isn't that another factor in fair chase? How fair is it to build a habitat to grow deer, grow them over several years, then let a certain small number of hunters cull the old ones? To me hunting is a predator/prey relationship and they need to be well aware of being prey for it to be fair chase, and is of more importance than whether the property has a fence or not.

[Texas Tinman]

Evan, I agree with you totally on the type of deer farm operations you desribed.

BTW, I hunt on about 200 acres in East, TX (low-fence...heck, no fence in some places)...I certainly don't have the coin (or interest) to kill animals that have been genetically improved for my killing pleasure. :rolleyes:          

I think most would agree that some of the things that are passed off as "deer management" by not only these smaller "farms" but a few high-dollar outfitters and private landowners are closer to trophy breeding and development programs. I don't really like that idea either but it's still a minority of the operations here.

To address the original topic, the key that I've found to finding a good exotic hunt here in Texas is to look for (1) the very few outfitters who can actually offer free-range (escapee/feral) exotic hunts or (2) look at the larger acreage, bowhunting only operations that charge a reasonable "daily fee" only  (no kill or trophy fees) . This type of "day lease" outfitter is usually pretty confident in both the property and the animals that live there...he's usually betting on the right side too.          

[Swamp Pygmy]

Yeah you are right there. And it's certainly not limited to smaller operations.

And boy that is one thing that gets me red. I almost wish you didn't mention it. Trophy fees. To me a trophy is a rare encounter after lots of work and study. The idea of selling one to a passing tourist with more money than skill or time...

I just don't even know what to say about it. While I wish those people luck, and I CERTAINLY understand it from a landowners view who wants a higher price for the trophy, as well as the hunters view who works seventy hours a week and doesn't care what it costs- he wants a trophy and he's only got a week.

I just wish those people would see it's not a trophy. It's just a big deer that demeans what a trophy is. I laugh on these hunting shows where after shooting a 130+ "cull buck" the first day they have to wait "till the last day" for dramatic effect on every episode for the massive trophy. Then they have the nerve after taking two trophies in a week to tell you how hard they hunted. A whole week. Wow.

The whole time true hunters were getting out before and after work, on weekends, all season for a chance to even see a "cull buck". Not to mention all the pre-season scouting, habitat knowledge, ambush plan. You know- the hunting part, not the waiting part.

And they go to a habitat they know nothing about, shoot a deer someone else did all the work to find, and think it's a trophy because they not only made a kill shot but it took an ENTIRE WEEK!

[Jedimaster]

My pygmy buddy you have hit the nail and drove it home.  You might be a poet!  I agree on all points of your last post.  I detest and will not watch hunting shows for all of the reasons mentioned.  If that ever becomes "hunting" to me I'll quit and find another way to enjoy the woods.  I enjoy the hard work, the scouting, stand hanging, finding food sources and bedding areas, exploring and discovering - that is hunting.  The rest is shooting.

Now for the standard disclaimer:  The previous is just one man's opinion and does not reflect the opinion of every man I call friend.  Each person's definition of hunting is unique to that individual and will be respected - although this person (me   :D  ) may opt not to participate.

[Swamp Pygmy]

Thanks.  

I pride myself on being articulate but sometimes I wish people didn't understand me. lol

But like you said as long as everyone respects that what they have is no different than what everyone else has. An opinion. Just an opinion. Not the word of truth with a capital "T". It's impossible to know everything about each side of the coin so it's important to keep an open mind. You don't know how things look from others eyes.

[reddogge]

I hunt Sika deer in MD but it is as far from a canned hunt as you could get.  Tens of thousands of acres of swamp and marsh, water and mud up to your knees, tiny little deer 1/2 th size of a whitetail, and nocturnal to boot.  By the way, they don't have deer trails like whitetail either but seem to wander aimlessly through the marshes.

[Interseptor]

Thanks for the imput.  I mentioned red deer and sikas just because I have an interest in them.  I would love to go elk hunting but that will not be happening this year. I might have a fall vacation next year in October.  The problem is that most bowhunting seasons for elk will be over then.  The exotics might fit my schedule better.  Was just wondering what it would be like to chase the red or sika from the ground.  Just looking for a new experience.  And was wondering how the US red deer difer from the ones running wild in places over seas.

[BUFF]

Originally posted by Interseptor:
Thanks for the imput.  I mentioned red deer and sikas just because I have an interest in them.  I would love to go elk hunting but that will not be happening this year. I might have a fall vacation next year in October.  The problem is that most bowhunting seasons for elk will be over then.  The exotics might fit my schedule better.  Was just wondering what it would be like to chase the red or sika from the ground.  Just looking for a new experience.  And was wondering how the US red deer difer from the ones running wild in places over seas.

Go hunt you a Red deer and have a blast doing it. I have a soft spot in my heart for Bear hunting. Any time i get a chance to hunt them it will be with an outfitter. I do not have the time to travel to a far away spot and set up baits. Hunting Red deer on a big high fence place is much the same. The rancher should have the scouting done and be able to provide you with enough info to get you going.  The only person you have to please is yourself.