220 fps!?

[aromakr]

you can't get arrows that light, you have to make them.
bob

[Rick P]

BTW Scythian or horse bows do attain compound bow speeds from very short bows at relatively high poundage's. In part the composite horse bow is what made the Mongol empire the largest the world has ever known.(no the Romans had basically a large town compared to the conquests of the Mongols. They Held territory as far into Europe as French alps!) Many horse bow shooters even claim they have a "let off point" as well, didn't notice it in the one I shot but I can say the bow didn't stack at all! And was startlingly fast!

[Pat B]

As hunters the ultimate speed of a bow is not relative. Stability and accuracy with hunting weight arrows at hunting distances is the most important thing.
   I'm not a flight shooter but from talking with a few guys that are(natural material flight bows) they sometimes don't even pull their bows to full draw until they step up to the firing line. That could be the only shot that bow will make and if it shoots farther than the competition, that's all that matters.
   The purpose of a flight bow is maximum distance. The purpose of a hunting bow is accuracy and stability with a hunting weight arrow and broadheads.
   I don't know the weight of the carbon arrow that James was shooting but I was standing behind him looking at the chrono. I was dumbfounded by the speed of his bow with that carbon arrow...but more importantly, as a hunter, the 190fps from a 50# bow shooting a 600gr cane arrow w/ broadhead was more impressive. Using the thumb ring and an extra long draw I'm sure added to this speed. Pat

[O.L. Adcock]

Rick P, "BTW Scythian or horse bows do attain compound bow speeds from very short bows at relatively high poundage's."

I've heard that for years the only thing I haven't seen is anyone prove it. They can reach compound bow speeds at very low arrow weights but guess what, all bows can. Independant testers will test anything you hand them. The flight competitions are open to anyone. You are more then welcome to show up. "Wood" and Turkish style bows can't reach "American" longbow distances let alone target or compound.

Pat, "I'm not a flight shooter but from talking with a few guys that are(natural material flight bows) they sometimes don't even pull their bows to full draw until they step up to the firing line. That could be the only shot that bow will make and if it shoots farther than the competition, that's all that matters.
The purpose of a flight bow is maximum distance. The purpose of a hunting bow is accuracy and stability with a hunting weight arrow and broadheads."

Yep, true for the wood bows making arrow tuning issues a "good guess" at best. The "pure" flight bows, yes, are designed to shoot an arrow far and that's it. But, they have many different weight and bow type classes to fit virtually all bows and those for the most part are off the shelf/same bows you hunt or target shoot with. They even have broadhead classes with minimum arrow weights usually in the 9-10gpp range....O.L.   www.usaarcheryrecords.org

[ROB TAYLOR]

Hmmm....well, excuuuuuuuse me...   I do know that fiberglass is heavy, carbon is heavy but stiffer....OK so far, OL?

So, if you didn't have either, but made the same draw weight with only wood....wouldn't you get better speeds?

I'm no bowyer, but reading lots of the so called "accurate" chrono testing of some of the selfbowyers and all wood lam builders, they sure impress me more than most glass bows.  Of course, they would never last as long durability-wise, I would guess.

BTW...the so called "fast" bows I have spent big bucks on never panned out anyway...except my current Border with HEXV limbs, it really is fast...not the A&H ACS, not the Sovereigns, not the Morrisons, not the DAS, none of em....Don't get me wrong, all nice bows in their own rights, but not as fast as advertised for sure.

-Rob

[Shawn Leonard]

Deadpool, unless you want to shoot for flight records and such, speed is nice but quietness and shootability are what ya want for hunting. You can get the best of both worlds with lots of bows, OLs bows, RER bows, Border, Morrison and Fedora to name a few. I myself shoot an RER arroyo that as for speed will shoot with the very best and it is very quiet and shoots like a dream. I am sure it would do well over 250 fps. at 30"s with 5 gpp. Shawn

[O.L. Adcock]

Rob, Borders are some of the fastest we've tested for sure.

"I do know that fiberglass is heavy, carbon is heavy but stiffer....OK so far, OL?

So, if you didn't have either, but made the same draw weight with only wood....wouldn't you get better speeds?"

It's a little something called efficiency and energy storage. You can have 2 bows that pull the same weight, say 50#. One might store 45 ft/lbs and the other stores 35. Then the one is 85% efficient while the other is 75%.... Good 15-20 fps difference beteen those 2 bows. The bad one would have to be 10-15 pounds heavier then the other with the same arrow to match it. To get a piece of wood the same "stiffness", it will weight much more and it doesn't store the energy.

"not the A&H ACS, not the Sovereigns, not the Morrisons, not the DAS, none of em...."

That's OK, only a few have the tools and knowledge to fairly test bows. We've had 11 years old boys take them and beat long standing mens distance records so that works for me......O.L.

[ductape]

"There are three kinds of lies, there are lies, damn lies, and there are statistics" Ben Franklin

My slow heavy arrows can tear them up!!      

[Shawn Leonard]

I will also say this, it is tough to win a argument with OL as he has the past and facts to back it up. I will also say that for some reason the bows he built seem to be quicker than than the present ACS's> Shawn

[deadpool]

I cant argue with none of your guys because you are all right

And I have no doubt the bows O.L mentioned would easily attain those speeds,I seen that myself,

After reading the guys product care I found that he used a 45lb slightly reflexed t/d longbow, and shot a 225g arrow,

when I read the info about the bow, I thought he used a hunting weight arrow,

man I learned so much yet feel so dumb for now figuring it out myself =p

[ROB TAYLOR]

Nope...not arguing, just asking.  Like I said, I don't build bows, I just shoot em and read about em...LOL.  

I had an ACS and was duly impressed with the design, those wafer thin limbs were awesome.  Were it not for the grip that made it an arm eater no matter what I did (BTW, the Morrison's are the same for me)...I may have never met the Border.

Oh, and Shawn's right, RER bows are a force to be reckoned with...especially at a tiny bit more than HALF the price of most of the other speedsters.

-Rob