PA Eye Opener

[Ray Hammond]

Doug77,

You didn't do yourself or anyone else in Iowa a favor by not reporting that father son team to the authorities.

The only way those folks know they are doing something wrong is when they get caught and fined/lose hunting privileges.

You might have saved the future generations of Doug's in Iowa an encounter with that young man they are surely going to have when he grows up and takes his boy out with buckets of apples in hand as well.

Missed an opportunity, I say.  Not ragging on you, just pointing out it has to stop someplace, might as well be now as later.

[danseitz]

Matt,
Your experiences are not mine and I believe that applies to a lot of Pa hunters.  Many public areas are just shot out.  You can have all the tags in the world, but if the areas are now practically devoid of game, it doesn't mean a thing.

My buddy and I have turned our attention to Ohio and possibly West Virginia.  I believe the Pa Game Commission has been absolutely derelict in their responsibillity to manage the deer herd.  In many areas there isn't anything to manage anymore.

[Jerry Jeffer]

The state lands in my area vary. If it's a small piece of land, the deer go toward private land during the hunting seasons. The big woods land I usually hunt have more deer then ever.  Personally I don't worry about who hunts with what weapon or when. I use my bow all year long and have just as much fun as ever no matter the season. I seriously Doubt PA is trying to eliminate all the deer. There is too much revenue to be had, and we all know how PA loves to take your money. I do agree that PA has some learning to do as far as our game management, but it isn't all that bad as many seem to think.  I could go on and on, but nuff said I think.

[flyfish1]

It is sad what our deer hunting has come to, and I fear the worst for where it is going. I hunt as hard as I can, and the deer just are not there.

[JOKER]

Matt is right, PA is still a great place to live and hunt with all it's state land and variety of game. I just think they need to lay off the deer a little now that the numbers are way down.

You can still find decent numbers in the areas with preferred food. There should be a good deer kill this year with the lack of acorns in the woods. The deer are moving more and concentrated neer the fields. The first saturday of ML I had a dad and his son kill 4 does in a field neer me. They were useing scopped inline muzzleloaders. Two of the deer droped over in front of me. I found them and made sure they found all there dead deer, congradulated them and wished them luck. The dad said he would be back with his other son the next weekend in the junior rifle season to try to kill two more. OH well, the law is the law.

[danseitz]

If you have deer to hunt, be thankful and also understanding.  The same condition does not exist for everyone in Pa.  Some areas are shot out and no amount of scouting will find what isn't there.

[Matt Fowler]

Didn't mean to hijack this thread. As Jerry says we could go on and on. But I still give a pass to kids and older hunters. Hope you guys enjoy the rest of the season. I am headed up to Tioga this weeekend and hope to run into a big woods brute!!

[BigHink66]

There are deer all over the place down where I live.  Robinson, McDonald, Oakdale areas and out toward West Virginia.

Also I know of some good spots up in Mercer county and see a ton of deer when traveling rt 60 or I79.

The herd is not decimated all across the state.  The reason that they needed to kill so many deer was you could see 300 yards through the woods up in the northern central counties.  Now that they have made some progress restoring the ecosystem from the previous herds of 50+ deer, they are going to get forced politically to increase the herd before the ecological goals have been reached.  Either that or the Game Commission will go out of business or be taken over by teh DCNR.

History will repeat itself.

[Doc Nock]

While I readily lament few sightings myself...here's what else I've learned by careful observation hunting highly pressured areas of public access.

1) I see no deer and don't get busted or blow them out on my way in or way out.

2) I find fresh rubs and scrapes made overnight,in the same area I hunted yesterday and left at dark..and now find them in the dark next AM going back in.

What I've come to believe (can't prove, but logic suggests) is that our local deer have become more sensitive to hunter activity. They've learned to pattern us better'n we pattern them!

We used to see tons of does circle around us all day long...knew we were there, but while keeping a watchful eye, we'd see the same group/groups of does cycle by us repeatedly during the day if we stayed relatively motionless. It was entertaining.  We weren't a threat and they tolerated our presence.

NOTE: In PA back then we only shot at does a few days per year...And while we'd see bucks scouting before season or spotlighting when legal, we saw darned few bucks when the hunters hit the woods.

Now I have to wonder if I'm seeing sign overnight regularly...and deer all around on the drive in along roads, but nothing during daylight...have we really dessimated the herd?

Or...or have WE now taught does that they are indeed "prey" and they, like the wily bucks, have changed THEIR behavior to allude us and have gone nocturnal?

If so, there is still "cause and effect" between the more liberal doe shooting ability and the does learning they're prey and making themselves scarce. Bucks continue to be ellusive as bucks always did...till the rut folks say...but not if there is more intense human pressure, then sign suggests breeding and chasing is happening at night! And perhaps "off property" where it's posted???

I still also contend that with the increasing "Patchwork" of available hunting..with so much "NO HUNTING" land interspersed within and among the areas we can hunt...we might just NOT be "encountering" deer during legal shooting times and because we can't see them, we assume they don't exist.

Of course, if you shoot more there are less...but now since we've been hammering more does, what does I do see are now towing behind them not a single yearling, or twins...but freakin TRIPLETS...

Nature abhors a vacuum so it tries to replenish the numbers where food is sufficient. I think that deer have changed their behaviors drastically and their haunts...along with the increased pressure...and we haven't.

Just my thoughts...but phantoms aren't making all the overnight sign I see from the SE to the Central parts where I hunt... yet no deer are seen by any of us sneaking in, staying all day, watching our scent...etc. Deer are there, but not when we are!

FWIW..

[BigHink66]

Doc,

I agree with you totally.  I don't see as many deer in deer season as I used too.  I think they have all gotten alot smarter with the concurrent doe and buck rifle season.  Along with the increased kill.

One area that I hunted about 2 years after the beginning of concurrent seasons made us think we had completely decimated the herd.  It was public ground.  We were used to seeing 10 - 20 deer a day and then that 2nd year we hardly saw any.

I hunted that same area the following spring gobbler.  There were literally deer all over the place in that same woods.  I'd move on a gobbler, only to bump deer and scare the gobbler.

This may not be the case for some areas, but I've seen what you are talking about.

[Doc Nock]

It's not a popular belief...because, I guess, we never want to think that it's us that hasn't changed to meet the changing conditions.

C'ourse, I don't know how you change that the land use surrounding public access hunting has grown increasingly "off limits" providing multiple daylight sanctuaries.

Years ago, as archery locally got more popular, I talked to the "Park" manager at Muddy Run Park. He did drive arounds INSIDE the park daily, 3/day! He said that his records showed (this was 20 years ago already) that the "..by noon of the opening day of archery season, his deer count INSIDE the park had doubled and STAYED that way through the end of January when all seasons closed.

BTW, that is in S. Lancaster County near the river and is surrounded on several sides by State Game Lands and other public access hunting!

I find that fact alone astonishing and now with the fact more doe tags are available, guys are at least shooting AT more does, more often, and then the infamous 7 day Doe MZ season in mid Oct!

That new kinda pressure has to change things when the mere presence of archers alone moved deer on that large a geographic area off public land onto private.

Still means the opportunities to SHOOT deer are restricted/limited/changed, but it doesn't mean the herd is dissimated because "hunters don't see them where they used to..."

"used to" died!  

[John Scifres]

With all due respect to the original poster, many people would find your lack of knowing the hunting seasons just as inexcuseable as the apparent disrespect shown by what must have been ignorant (in a different way) hunters.

That being said, you handled it as well as could be expected.  Good job.

John

[MJB]

John,
Sorry I skipped/overlooked that they added a special rifle season , in conjunction with our bow season. I have enough to remember with small game hunters, muzzleloaders, turkey . Just think next year my list will get bigger. With what I will have to remember . I'll have to add crossbows to the mix