Steve,
I'm obvioulsy a proponent of "anything that helps" group, but I can say I didn't read into Riche's post that to ignore Ashby's research is "irresponsible"... but he might have.
It's so easy to feel "attacked" and feel a need to make a broad based statement in return. I hope, Steve, you don't feel I'm doing that to you, but I'd like to comment to some of your statements.
What I thought I saw Richie comment to was that the Ashby data is rather undeniable. I believe that the data undeniably shows that heavy arrows, single bevel, tanto tips and sharp...super sharp heads IMPROVES penetration, etc. Not that everyone should run out and do it all...but that it's hard to understand how anyone can say the data doesn't support better penetration...period.
It's all tied together:
Penetration is tied to speed, weight, perfectly tuned arrow not losing energy en route. A heavy head/arrow combo equates to more retained energy and it "helps" improve penetration, if every thing else is in harmony as well.
There is a thread on here of a chap shooting a 1000 gr. arrow and big single bevel on a deer, hit the off shoulder and SHATTERED the leg bone. Quick recovery! I'd like that margin of safety and insurance, but won't shoot a 1000 gr. arrow!
Where I'd politely disagree with your above statement is to suggest that "for NA game, it's simply not true!"
I respectfully disagree. some light fast arrow set ups, just won't punch through bone, deflect and lose penetration often resulting..often, not always, in a lost deer!
Soft tissue is always the goal... When shooting instinctively, I quit worrying about actual distance... if...and another giant IF...IF I stay within my lethal range limits...Everyone is different.
I think a closer reading of Ashby's research and articles, although a daunting task at times for they are kinda technical, you'll see that your one statement about "if I hit bone...I'm not near vitals" is somewhat of a misnomer.
From a tree, you can easily be off a slight bit, hit a shoulder blade...but vitals lie just beneath! A good penetration set up...whether that be a well tuned shaft, heavier well tuned shaft...single bevel head...and super sharp edge..it's totally reasonable once that shot has occurred, to reach vitals through improved penetration..not a African Buffalo, but you can punch through such a bone area and stop the deer and recover it.
Deer aren't armor coated. Nope. But we all or most all of us, honestly have lost a deer to a marginal shot...even ones we SWORE were dead nuts vital shots...but never found blood or the deer! Makes us sick. Soem of us have chosen to latch onto the research cited to provide some measure of insight...and it's provided us with a way to try to do EVERYthing we can to never have another "can't understand what happened" experience.
NA animals are lost every year...so that alone suggests that there is a "REASON" to "CONSIDER" anything that we can learn to lessen those situations! If it simply "weren't true" then we'd not loose deer...penetration again can be a poor set up, poor BH sharpness and many other factors...but it doesn't discount that heavy set ups can HELP.
I for one would like to be clear that while I embrace the Ashby stuff, and choose to try to employ most of it...I don't consider anyone who doesn't to be irresponsible or unethical...
I just ask that if and or "when" that time comes that you do loose an animal, then...then perhaps you'll reconsider and see if there is ANYthing in the Ashby work that might make sense and be worth a try...
Peace out...
Topic: heavy bone threshold 650 gr, what about deer? (Read 943 times)
