Exit Holes .. bloodtrails. . penetration?

[trashwood]

it is a fact that what happens between the in and out hole is the most import.  havig dissected a bounch of stuff in college, i can tell ya it is easy to push a blood vessel out of the way with an extremely sharp scaple.

it had occured to me (maybe wrongly) that the rough file edge of the BH would grab the blood vessel instead of push it out of he way.  I have no real idea as to the facts....just one of those things ya deside is right then hang on to it if it is working.

rusty

[Doc Nock]

Lots of great input and ideas shared here. I by no means have a lot of my own expertise. I'm still learning about sharp, and how to get it. I do think that sharp is directly correlated to "exit holes, penetration and blood trails" so I hope Mike doesn't feel this is sidetracking.  :eek:  

Only thing I'd offer further input on, that I feel confident in my own knowledge is this:

 

Originally posted by trashwood:
... it is easy to push a blood vessel out of the way with an extremely sharp scaple.

it had occured to me (maybe wrongly) that the rough file edge of the BH would grab the blood vessel instead of push it out of he way.  
rusty

In some of Ed Ashby's reports, he discusses at length the mechanical advantage (MA) of various blade designs, bevels, etc and he reviews the very point of pushing veins/arteries to the side. That is a whole nuther can of worms!  

Rusty, I can't argue against wheither the serrated, rough file edge might better grab and "tear" a vein going by ...

What medical information I've been exposed to shows is that rough torn edge might cause a vein to open...but it will clot a lot quicker, which we also don't want. We need them to be cut to bleed, but we also need the cuts not to clot!

As you say, Rusty, to each his own but I learn from these discussions--- and have had to change my views on a lot of things through what's presented here.

That is why I'm so grateful for the great sharing that takes place here.

[Morning Star]

My thoughts on the 2blade exits not bleeding.


I have a hard time believing that an edge sharp enough to punch through the other side of an animal isn't sharp enough to make the animal bleed.

I strongly believe that the slit a 2 blade leaves simply seals back together easily.  Whether it be do to pressure from surrounding tissue or a moisture (sticking together) type seal.  Single lacerations (broadhead or not) just have a natural tendancy to seal themselves.  Might actually be more accurate to call the wound an incision, since it is so clean a cut.  The larger the width, the harder it is to seal.  
My opinion, you'd need above 1.25" width to get decent results.  Of course there are obviously lots of variables.

A 3 blade head leaves a wound where the tissue tends to pull away from the center, leaving somewhat of a hole. Better for drainage and less prone to be plugged with tissue.

[TomMcDonald]

Originally posted by Morning Star:
My thoughts on the 2blade exits not bleeding.


I have a hard time believing that an edge sharp enough to punch through the other side of an animal isn't sharp enough to make the animal bleed.

I strongly believe that the slit a 2 blade leaves simply seals back together easily.  Whether it be do to pressure from surrounding tissue or a moisture (sticking together) type seal.  Single lacerations (broadhead or not) just have a natural tendancy to seal themselves.  Might actually be more accurate to call the wound an incision, since it is so clean a cut.  The larger the width, the harder it is to seal.  
My opinion, you'd need above 1.25" width to get decent results.  Of course there are obviously lots of variables.

A 3 blade head leaves a wound where the tissue tends to pull away from the center, leaving somewhat of a hole. Better for drainage and less prone to be plugged with tissue.

I think (regardless of the desired amount of blood) that we must focus on what fatal damage the head is doing to the vitals rather than how much blood is going to be left.
A very quick kill is more desirable than a an easy to follow blood trail.
And I'm not saying that the two don't go hand-in-hand.

[wingnut]

Tom,

That is fine and good, but if you don't have the blood trail you don't recover the animal and . ..  .here that is a very bad thing.

I know in Australian most of what you hunt is feral and considered vermin.  We don't have that here so recovery is the biggest part of this sport.  At least it is too me.

Mike

[TomMcDonald]

I understand recovery is THE most important aspect of shooting an animal.
It is here too.
I'm saying, you MUST try and achieve the best of both worlds; that is, a killing shot and a good trail.
The two don't necessarily happen simultaneously.

I too strive for pass-through shots for damge of organs and blood vessels.

Anyway, I'm saying what ya'll already know.

[wingnut]

Tom,

I ment no offence.  A shot that enters and exits through vital tissue and retains a sharp characteristic throughout leaves the best trail to follow.  A good news trail if you will.  I think we are saying the same thing but getting there through different means.

I believe the two can happen simultaneousley.

Mike

[TomMcDonald]

I know you meant no offense Mike.
And I, too, believe they can happen simultaneously but will not always.

[wingnut]

I started on the project this morning by pulling the DMT grit chart.  These are the grits I have available to use:

 

The real heavy ones will really move metal and after already doing the file I think would be overkill.  Where do you think I should start with a good file sharpened head?  I'm thinking Red, Green, White, Tan.

 

Mike

[trashwood]

as a wood carver Red, Green, whitem and tan are the one i use for wood carving knifes.

rusty

[wingnut]

Cool!!  I moved this to a new thread.  WW. . .how sharp can we get it?