I Have a Question......a few to follow(more ?? pgs. 4,6,7)and final question pg. 9

[Bill Carlsen]

My experience with poor bloodtrails or lost game has almost always involved a hunter who thinks he has sharp broadheads but really doesn't. My only personal experiences with two blade heads have been on four deer I killed. One shot deflected off an unseen branch and hit the deer just in front of the kidney severing the artery that leads to it. The deer went about 10 yards and collapsed. I thought I had missed the deer so as I waited for it to get dark it quietly bled out. There was no cavity for the blood to fill so when I got down and couldn't find the arrow my flashlight caught the white of the deer's belly. I examined the carcass and considered myself lucky that the broadhead had not been turned 90 degrees because I was fairly sure the death would not  have been as quick or as bloody. I was shooting a Hunter's Head. I also shot a small buck from the ground with the same head. He died in less than 50 yards but in all that distance the only evidence I found was the bloody arrow which had pulled out on some brush as he ran thru. Another deer I shot with a big Mag I. Hit in the spine it dropped, just like several others I had killed with multiple blade heads. I shot another deer about a week later with the Mag I. Hit in the chest, got one lung, lliver and the arrow exited the front of the abdomen. If I didn't have snow I would not have found the deer that afternoon. It did not go far but even on the snow it left very little blood and I keep my bh's really, really sharp....I am kind of anal about that. After I shot the fourth deer with two blade heads, extremely sharp ones, I put all my two blades away and went back to my Snuffers, Woodsmans, Phantoms and now Razorcaps. By far the best trails I have had have been with the multiblade heads.

After all that has been said, and will be said, I believe  it all comes down to personal choice based on personal experience. I would love to shoot two blade heads with confidence but my experience just gets in the way. I just can't seem to make them work for me. And just for the record, I have lost as many with them as I have tagged. I would very much like to have confidence in them but it hasn't worked for me....at least not enough. Too high a ratio of lost to tagged animals.

[Steertalker]

Have you ever seen first hand what a 160 Snuffer "wound channel" looks like through a deer?

Yep...looks very similar to a bullet wound channel.  Lots of blunt force impact trauma....bruising, etc. which translates into a very excited and possibly lost deer.  Not so with surgically sharpened and polished Grizzly.  All you get is a clean slit all the way through which translates into an almost guaranteed pass thru and less trauma for the animal, extremely quick and massive hemorrhaging and a short recovery.

Honestyl Curt.....which BH would you want to be shot with if you had to go that way???  A Grizzly or your 160 Snuffer???  Which one would probably bring you more discomfort?  Which one is more likely to zip through you and stick in the cactus 20 yds behind you???  Ooops...you probably don't have any cactus where you live.  No disrespect intended...just something to think about.

I've shot them both, know how to put an edge on them and I'll take the Grizzly 190 El Grande any day.

Brett

[tradtusker]

101 ways to skin a cat!

[SteveB]

If the Ashby style heads whip tissue blender style, would not this have a similar or even stronger alarm reaction to what some feel a multi blade creates?

Curt - old blind squirrels find a way to eat  :D  

Steve

[Shawn Leonard]

Was I the only one that new Ray did not mean he has killed a thousand? He was involved in some way with them. I once met a young fellow who had killed over a thousand, he hunted in 3 states for about 5 straight months every year. He hunted with an old Pearson recurve and he shot all those deer with bear razorheads. I never questioned his choice of equipment, how could ya? A thousand kills and he was only 32 years old, has pictures of every kill too!! I believe Curt was just looking to get peoples opinions and not really answers because as we all can tell we all have our own "answers" to this thing we call hunting!! Mine are not set in stone but I am not about to change what works because 40 or 50 people say this or that is the best. I say do what works for you and do not worry about what the other folks are doing!! Shawn

[Slasher]

Wow, surprised no one has gotten an aneurism yet!!!    

So what exactly is the point? I’ve read lot’s of good ones and it made me think… It also made me think about a few things more on my shot selection and the spot that I pick… But not about the broadheads I use, cuz I chose a few years ago on what I read on here… Now I have chosen to suit my needs based on my situation… and that changes with the season, where I am hunting, and the game I’m chasing...  

All in all a good thread as it has made folks think about things... I don;t know how to say this anymore tactfully, so here goes... but danged if I don't think there's a bunch of pot stirring than anything else...  

[DRR324]

Ray, In theory- the lungs are like balloons, of course with thousands of little air chambers which actually inrease the "surface" area of the tissue.  However, if a deer is 16-20" wide, and a broadhead (any type) spins at a rate of one revolution in 17", then I am guessing it is only making a 1/2 of revolution while slicing through one lung.  Certainly this is enough to create massive damage while the lung deflates instantly upon itself.  This would hold true regardless of broadhead chosen.  I have seen and held this type of deflated lung tissue, and would not be able to claim is was due to the high revolution of a spinning blade.

[BOFF]

Originally posted by Bill Carlsen:
My experience with poor bloodtrails or lost game has almost always involved a hunter who thinks he has sharp broadheads but really doesn't.  

X2

[Steertalker]

I have just recently converted to the Grizzly El Grande and the only reason I didn't switch earlier was because of sharpening issues.  But, with help from Ron at KME and Bill Howland from Brackenbury I can now make one deadly sharp.  I prefeced with that because I certainly do not have the experience with them that Ray has.  However, I just recently killed 2 bucks...a week a part....using this BH.  My post shot analysis of the wound channel was, at least to me, very impressive.  

There was no S shaping or blender effect.  There was no bruising or blunt force trauma you see with most other type BH's.  Nope..none of that....just a perfect, clean and almost unnoticeable slice all the way through.  Yes...there was a slight offset between the entry and exit wounds, but that's it.

The first buck was shot dead center through the heart and lower lobes of the lungs and crashed in just over 3 seconds.  The second buck did a quarter horse duck and spin on me and was hit through the middle of the spine and severed both femoral artories that run down the bottom of the spine.  I got a complete BH pass through with the BH sticking through the hide on the off side.....undamaged, still sharp and ready to be used again.  That buck went down on the spot.

What's my point?  Again, I did not see the blender effect that I've heard mentioned previously.  Nor did I see the S shaped hole.  What I did see was a cut so delicately sliced that it created a devistatingly quick and massive hemorrhage.  Quick death.  

I've shot and killed with the Snuffer and WW BH's.  Because of their design, they cause the animals to react much more than they do with the Grizzly or other 2 blade BH's that I have used previously.  Also, I noticed way more blunt force traume with these type BH's indicating to me that they are not nearly as efficient at cutting and slicing as are the good 2 blades.

When an animal is hit in the paunch, the last thing you want is for that animal to run like the dickens.  With a 3 bladed BH, that is more apt to happen and even worse....you may not get a pass through which results in a traumatized deer, elk or whatever running with an arrow sticking out of its gut.  Again...in my experience....a deer that is cleanly(pass through with an extremely sharp 2 bladed BH) shot through the gut and undisturbed will go down in a very short distance....usually within 100 yds of the shot.  Their paunch has more bleeders than most people realize and if sliced cleanly will cause the animal to died in a fairly short time.  The key to an easy recovery is how disturbed the animal was at the time of the hit.  A good surgically sharpened and polished to a mirror finish 2 bladed BH is virtually guaranteed to cause the least amount of reaction.

Just my observations and personal experience.  Not trying to preach or say my way is the only way.  Just throwing some things out there for people to chew on.  Am I opinionated?  You bet I am.  But my opinions are based on personal experience.

Brett

[Raven]

Good post Steertalker!!              

[Walt Francis]

Curt, this is a good/entertaining thread, thanks for starting it.
My thoughts take them or leave them, I don’t much care: I use two blade (Grizzly), three blade (Woodsman), and four blade (Eclipse, two blade with a bleeder) broadheads, intermix and change them without thinking much about it, and the broadheads weights vary between 125 and 190 grains.  I match the weight and therefore the type of broadhead to the arrow that flies best from a given bow.   The most important factor for me is accuracy, if you put the arrow where it should be this discussion is moot.  Accuracy is followed by good arrow flight, if you have that, ample penetration will follow.  Without penetration, this discussion is moot.  Next is a sharp broadhead, both before and after the shot.  Many people put a razor thin, super sharpe, and weak edge on the broadhead and it gets duller (is duller a word) then a butter knife when it hits a bone.  I find my broadheads stay sharper after hitting bone with a little less of an angle on the edge then most people use.    

Some of you guys need to lighten up a little bit, your too serious and taking the fun out of it. This made me realize that the broadhead topic is a little like religion, there are lots of them out there, lots of people think theirs is the only “right one”, and everybody should accept their choice.  
A final thought, personally, I think many of you are spending too much time worrying about why your broadhead is the best and justifying that is, when the time would be better spent practicing to make sure it hits where it should.

[TradOnly]

This has been an informative and "spirited" discussion.  As I mentioned before I've shot one deer and lost the trail even with a tracking dog.  I'm just trying to find a broadhead that gets the job done more often than not, flies well, isn't too heavy or light, too large or too small and doesn't require a bank loan to purchase.  Not to mention, one that I can stick with for a while and not switch from every season.  I turn to this forum because whether you like it or not, I and others like me, look to all of you as the experts in the "mystical flight of the arrow" from stick and string.