If tillered for 3 under why the handshock

[plentycoupe]

The last two bows I bought I requested tillered for shooting 3 fingers under. I changed to that style a long time ago and shoot more accurate.

Both of the bows shot noticeabley smoother, quieter with split fingers though. As I have just started shooting split again and there is no mistaking the difference.

If the bowyer tillers for three under, why is there a big difference?

[R H Clark]

What is the tiller measurement on your bows?On my ILF bows I tiller zero for three under and 1/8-1/4 pos for split.A lot will depend on the way you distribute the pressure across your fingers.

[plentycoupe]

am not sure what the tiller measurement is. I just asked for them to be completed for three under.

My current bow is a A&H ACS CX, the previous was a Habu Vyperkahn.

[George D. Stout]

plentycoupe, you should really check the tiller on your bows anyway, that's part of the tuning process.  Don't rely on what someone says they are going to do.  A three finger under tiller should be close to no difference or just 1/8th or so positive.  A split finger can be anywhere from 1/4 to 3/8th's in most cases but can also vary.

[Bob Sarrels]

I am with R H on this one.  I tiller my bows even for three under and about 3/16 to 1/4 for split.  I have a friend who had been shootin 3 under for awhile and I told him to let me shoot his bow both ways and to listen  very close to the sound difference.  He could not believe the difference in how much quiter the split finger method was.  Less shock too.

[plentycoupe]

George,
I will do that cause I like to have the best possible set up.
However, I am not sure how to check what you and the rest are talking about.

What is meant by 1/8th or so positive.

Thanks again
Jason

[longbow1]

measure the distance from the fadeout in the limbs to the string.

[Van/TX]

Measure from the riser fadeouts to the string. Normally the lower limb will measure around 1/4" less.  For 3 under tiller both limbs will normally measure the same.  This was the recommended standard set up for compounds when they first came out.  Of course this standard was in place before then  :p   ..Van

[O.L. Adcock]

"Both of the bows shot noticeabley smoother, quieter with split fingers though. As I have just started shooting split again and there is no mistaking the difference."

All bows do and it's caused by the limbs having to shift from where the center of finger pressure is to behind the arrow and differences in tiller doesn't change that. All different tillerings will do is cause a slight nock point change. It doesn't make them quieter nor more accurate. Bow design, set up, and tuning influance that more so then "tiller". I tiller closer to zero for someone that shoots 3 under but it doesn't do a darned thing!   ....O.L.

[hvyhitter]

Thanks OL for confirming what I have observed from setting up and shooting about 2 dz bows in the last 15 yrs of shooting 3 under. 3 I know were "tillered" 3 under, the rest unknown or split. Every one had to be tuned as it is and some just shoot better than others. Just tune it and shoot it.

[O.L. Adcock]

That's it!   ...O.L.

[bmgarto]

O.L the latest Bowyer Bible 4 in the design revisited section leads me to believe that if the limbs are the same length and your handle is in the center that there will be less hand shock if you use 3 under because the bow limbs have more even pressure on them. What's your thoughts on this?

[O.L. Adcock]

Possibly on the handshock issue. Not sure how anyone would measure it however. Too much variation in materials to conclude more or less shock was caused by geometry/tiller or material? Until we find a way to shoot through the middle of our hand, the arrow will always be 1.25" or so away from the center of pressure of our hand. So we can never be symetrical between drawing forces and shooting forces. Different length limbs, different tillers, ect...are all attempts at doing one thing, making the limbs bottom out at the same time. As long as they do, "how" we did it doesn't make much difference......O.L.

[3undr]

Ok here is a goofy question. Have you ever seen anyone shoot split with 2 over 2 under? Not that I would want to try this, but wouldn't that put equal presure behind the arrow? Opps thats 2 questions

[James Wrenn]

Every time you move the nocking point or shift postion on the grip with your hand you are changing tiller.3 under tiller can sell bows but is not real important from a shooting stand point.jmo

[3undr]

Thanks James, I was letting my brain go back to compound mode and trying to apply it to trad. The reason compound shooters shoot with a loop is to get the release directly behind the arrow. I guess i never thought about why i raise my nock point, and now it makes sense i'm really changing the tiller

[MAT]

Could it be that changing the amount of tiller will affect the nock travel?  If one limb bends more than the other then the nock has to move in a vertical direction when shot.   Nock travel is an issue with those 1 cam bows and was the inspiration for the dreaded expandable broadhead.  

But it seems to me trad bows can have nock travel issues too, or am I nuts?  I would think that is why they tiller different for split vs 3 under.  So if you shoot different than the tiller there could be an issue, but it might be so small it's not a big deal.  

Trying to visualize this in my head if the lower limb tiller is less (limb stronger) than the upper it would bend less at full draw, making the nock travel up, right? Up is better than down.  But I know my bow has a downward nock travel shooting 3 under and I can't figure out why, except it's tillered for spilt.  I figured this out because my arrows were leaving a mark on the riser.  I raised the rest a little and now it shoots bullets thru paper.  That's hard to do shooting any bow with fingers.