Am I alone?

[Doc Nock]

There is a "letter from the boss" circulating on the net about the risks taken to build a biz and how biz owners are being squeezed.

Brings in focus what some above said, there is a tremendous investment in R&D, then mfg set up, all on the premise that the product will sell to design, find mfgs and then build/market these heads.  And there are outfits overseas that are not impeded by patent laws who then knock off these quality items and sell low quality mimics.

He who risks much, must recoup. I'll never buy those pricey heads, but I would if I could! :)Just to have "the best".  

Why the penchant for "the best"? Cause every sad tale I've ever heard in my life seems to have a couple "if only" in it. I prefer to not have an AVOIDALBE "if only" in my gear when trying to kill a critter...just me.

I can't afford the price restrictive heads, so I keep working on learning all I can about how to sharpen better what heads I can afford, and how to milk every bit of energy outa my arrow/bow set up... to avoid as many of the "if only" scenarios as possible.

But I still think it's so very cool that folks will push to figure out how to build a better mouse trap, invest, risk, and market improved products for those who can and will support their efforts.

...even when the $.89 cent mouse trap of my grandpa's day still kills mice dead!  

[b.glass]

Good responses from all.
 
I own one 300 xtreme broadhead and 3 Ashby broadheads. I can't afford a quiver full of any of the high dollar points, but thought I could afford a few of them. I would like to own a Silver Flame some day.

Anything that I have killed, I have killed with a Woodsman. I still wanted a few of these new broadheads.

I am heart broken when ever I loose or break an arrow. Be it footed shaft or nutter, field point or broadhead.

I went with the two types that I did because the 300 x is so much like the Woodsman and the Ashbys are so much like the Grizzly. I bought them because they are easier for the inexperienced to get and keep sharp. I feel like I owe that to the animals I shoot at. And I bought them because they help with the Extreme Front of Center set up that I now use.

I have asked every chance I get for lessons on sharpening a broadhead. Until someone can sit down with me and walk me through sharpening a Grizzly I don't think I will ever get it.
When I ask for help. They take the broadhead, take the file and say, "You do it like this". That teaches me nothing.

I've tried the suggestions on this forum. I still can't sharpen a Grizzly to my standards.
The Woodsman is the only broadhead that I have been able to get even close to my standard of "sharp". Until now.

[Orion]

Since the arrow is the most important part of the bowhunting set up, I have no qualms about buying the more expensive heads, and intend to do so, though I may not buy as many as I would  less expensive heads.  I've been killing stuff for more than 40 years with heads like Bears, Zwickeys, Magnus and more recently STOS.  There's no doubt they work fine.  But I also think that Ed Ashby's research has shown that heavier, single bevel heads will usually give better penetration on marginal (read that bone) hits.  No one wants to make those kind of hits, of course, but they happen.

[Biggie Hoffman]

Having been in manufacturing my whole life, I can say with certainty that a good job takes time and time is money.
A handmade head is gonna be more expensive than a production head. A hand sharpened head, like a Silverflame, same deal.

I can tell you this; The reason the Woodsman broadhead has changed hands 3 times in it's short life is because the profit margin is so low, it will take 10 years to get any type of ROI.

When we 1st made the head (2XL Productions) we were making about $2 per 6 pack on a $30k investment. You do the math.

Sorry George, I didn't mean to startle you by saying $30 thousand dollars all at once....

[SteveB]

Biggie -   :D  

Steve

[Greg Skinner]

Interesting thread and good comments by all.  As I sit at my laptop using software that Bill Gates made millions developing, I have to be thankful that we live in the USA and that free enterprise exists and enables individual people to research and develop products from which we all benefit.  I have a land surveying business and use GPS survey equipment that costs about $50K per outfit.  I feel I need it in order to compete.  If someone sometime had not spent countless hours and thousands or millions of dollars developing the equipment I would still be squinting through the scope of a total station or even a non-electric transit. Of course archery is "just" a hobby for me (well, that's what I tell myself), so I don't feel the need to keep up with the state of the art equipment.  In fact simplicity rules in my archery world.  I don't even shoot a recurve because I can't string it without a stringer, whereas I can my HH longbow. I like grizzly broadheads and will continue to shoot them; but believe me, if I was hunting something that I thought required just a little extra edge, I'm sure I would spring for a few of the $30 broadheads.  After all, I spent over $200 on a wet/grindstone for no other reason than to be able to change the angle on the Grizzly bh's.  Technology definitely has its place and we all pick and choose as to how much technology we opt to use in our lives.

[Curtiss Cardinal]

I tried to make it clear in my initial post that I fully feel the heads are, for the most part, worth the money. I am floored that Tusker now makes a 300 grain, single bevel, tanto tipped 2 blade for such a fantastic price. I have shot Tuskers and they are indeed tough, well made heads. I am very much sold on extremely heavy heads and front loaded arrows. I hunted this year with over 400 grains up front and that took a heavy broadhead, a heavy adapter, and weights on a heavy adapter. So I may well have been pushing $10 an arrow for that weight and the broadheads I wanted to use, Snuffers, STOS, and Wensel Woodsmans. All got full penetration on a wet Chicago phonebook and the 1/4 inch plywood it was framed in from a mid 60's draw weight bow. I'm agree with what you have all said, at least I can see you points(pun intended).

[NorthernCaliforniaHunter]

What do you all recon a well made, artful, handcrafted arrow of stick and stone would fetch? Especially if said arrow was crafted by someone well connected to the type of art scene that would pay unbelievable money for such things as paint randomly splattered on canvas? Especially if the artist were capable of sustaining at least the illusion of living a native, agrarian lifestyle requiring intimate knowledge of the uses of stick and stone?

I have a feeling the answer to that question would be ooooodles more cash than the purveyor of the $30 broadhead, at a fraction of the productivity. I sincerely believe that such artists exist right here on this site, and that it's all simply a matter of marketing. If you pollish a turd and speak highly of it enough, someone will believe you and offer you good money for it.

[Dartwick]

I think the real situation is that super custom premium ultra special broad heads are getting more attention than they deserve.

If people want to pay for best imaginable broad head for their hunts fine.
But I think writers and editors do the community a disservice when they focus on them.

Maybe you need these water buffalo  and grizzlies.
You dont for deer, elf, boars and most big game.

[NorthernCaliforniaHunter]

I don't know Dartwick, them elves can be pretty thick skinned!  

[John3]

They are worth what "someone" will pay.... Exactly like a Morrison or Black Widow that is pushing $1300.00 plus.  

I'm happy with  a 6pk of Zwickey's for $18.00.. They get crazy sharp and alway work correctly when I do my part.

[ethan]

2-Big brings up a good point.  Why do we pay 5 X's the money for a bow when an old Bear or Pearson will do the same job?  I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.  That being said, after reading Dr. Ashby's reports on different head designs I'm probably going to start using a single bevel tanto point heavy head.  I'd just perfer to spend alot less for a Grizzly.

[IB]

I can remember when I paid 25 cents for a gallon of gas..Last summer I paid 5.00 plus. If you had told me 20 years ago I would be paying 100 + dollars for shoes I would have said your NUTS.

 Aren't all things relative ?

 On the bright side not many BHs are being made in China and that money stays here.

 I pay the price for good boots.......

[Gerry]

I think I will stick to my old Bear razorhead... heck it is alot cheaper when I miss. If I used one of the expensive ones I would never leave the woods looking for it 8^)

[Paul WA]

Well shooting wooden arrows is getting expensive too, tapered cedar shafts 46.00 per dz + shipping...PR

[Bill Tell]

I am a little bit different then most when reading this post.  I have a 400 dollar bow, arrows that are aluminum that I fletched myself.  I make my own strings, target, tabs, and so on.   I cheep as much as I can whenever I can.

The only piece of equipment that I will not cheep on is the broad head.  I have spent for the expensive heads and will continue to do so as long as there is no other offering with the same criteria for less money.

I believe that you owe it to the animal to shoot the most lethal type of head known.  So far to date with everything I have read and experienced what I purchased is the ultimate in heads.  I believe that these heads are not just for Safari.  You can not possibly have too much penetration for any animal.  The arrow is not like a bullet.  You wont damage meet with overkill.  Overkill is exactly what I do want from my heads.

I believe that you should spend the most amount of money you can afford on your broad head.  I realize that not all can afford the same.  I am saying that as far as a penetration goes it should be your number one priority of your equipment and your dollar allocation should reflect this.  (Let it be know that shooting well and penetration go hand and hand.  I you miss there will be no penetration.)

[Dartwick]

There are arrow heads costing well over $50 each. I really dont owe that to a 200lb deer than can be killed just fine with a Grizzly or my old Zwickys for a fraction of the cost.

You really can pay too much.