KME Knife or Broadhead. for grizzly

[fireball31]

Well I'm switching to grizzly broadheads and have heard they are  bstrd to sharpen. I'm going to go with KME and I was wondering if you guys reccommend the Knife sharpener or the Broadhead sharpener.

[DBerrard]

the one designed for broadheads.

[KentuckyTJ]

Email or call Ron he will let you know everything you need plus give you some sharpening tips that you will not figure out on your own.

KME's are awesome you will wonder how you ever did without it.

[DesertDude]

Ron will be here soon.  I like the Knife sharpener, Then I can sharpen both.........

[amicus]

I think it depends which grizzly you will be using. The el grandes are to big and hard for the bh sharpener. Just my .02. Good luck

Gilbert

[Steertalker]

I use the BH sharpener on the 190's.....works just fine and gets them hair splitting sharp.

Brett

[Dave2old]

Ron had a computer crash, so may or may not pick up on this thread before it unravels. I say neither KME tool for the initial re-angling and sharpening, nor a file, which takes off too much weight and will give your heads radically different weights. First thing you want to do is send 'em to Ron to get 'em right. Extra expense and hassle, but if you want to shoot Grizzlies and don't have the magic finger for sharpening, and/or the special tooled machinery that KME has recently invested in, as most of us don't, that's the only way I've found to get a dozen (or whatever) heads that are re-angled correctly, really sharp and all within close weight tolerance. After that, either KME tool works fine, but for 2-blades you might as well go with the knife sharpener and get two uses for one price. Rumors persist that Grizzly will soon join the race to produce broadheads as close as possible to the standards Doc Ashby's research has shown to be srongest and most lethal, which will include factory pre-sharping rather than the current chainsaw Grizzly edge. Unless you have a need for heads right away, you might wait until closer to fall to see what Grizzly and others -- esp. STOS -- will come up with. Frankly, if Grizzly doesn't get with it pretty soon they will have given up their first-place position for Ashby-style heads to other manufacturers who give more of a damn about our needs and market demands. And that list, happily, is growing.

[Daddy Bear]

I will slightly disagee with the previous post:)

The Grizzly 190s are hard steel and do require proper tools to sharpen. Use the wrong tools and/or the wrong technique, and you'll chase your tail in circles.

The current 190 Grizzly will come out of the pack with a fairly broad range in weight. This has no bearing on the sharpened head. The current head comes out of the pack with a bevel fairly close to 30degrees. The least amount of work would be to keep the bevel at that angle and remove steel until that bevel intersects with the back edge. If you properly sharpen your Grizzly at this approximate bevel, your end product will be fairly close to 180 grains and the weights between heads will be very close.

Many, including myself, like to change the bevel to somewhere around 25degrees. This will require more work and more steel removal. Wrong tools and/or techniques and you will screw yourself into the ground with a migraine. If you change the bevel and properly sharpen the Grizzly, the product will be fairly close to the 170-175 grain range and will be very consistent in weight.

Now to the sharpeners. The broadhead sharpener will cut a flat bevel, but it is pretty much stuck in its ability to lower the Grizzly bevel angle. I'm not sure the Broadhead sharpener angle, but I think it is closer to the factory Grizzly angle. If you took a modified Grizzly that was around 22.5 to 25degrees on the bevel, I do not think that the Broadhead sharpener would match that bevel. On the other hand, you can change the angle on the knife sharpener.

I'll defer to Ron, but I'm of the opinion that the knife sharpener cannot match a completely flat 25degree bevel on a Grizzly. When I set the bevel on a Grizzly at 25degrees with a file, it is 25degrees flat along the entire length. If I then took that Grizzly and stick it in the knife sharpener and adjust it to match the same angle, it will only match in the middle. The stone and rod swings on an arc from a pivot point whereas the blade is flat and straight. I think it is impossible to have the arc of the stone to match the same flat straight bevel cut by the file. Flip side, if I set the bevel with the Knife sharpener and then run the bevel over a flat file it will show high and low spots.

I normally set the bevel by hand using the Ashby file. I've also tested an alternative low cost file of which I posted a review and tutorial on LW. Once the bevel is set, I develop an edge using mill files. I recently began going the extra step of honing this edge to a final finish with Ron's knife sharpener, but I do this by freehand holding the stones in the carrier. Ron sent me a bunch of his finished Grizzlies and they turned out near identical in weight as mine. They are sharp enough to cut you if you look at them too long(both his and mine)

I would recommend that anyone who is not rock solid in their ability to hand sharpen hard steel to consider keeping the angle close to the factory 30degrees for starters. This would require the least amount of steel removal. This will not match the edge of a modified Grizzly, but you'd get a great edge. Ask Ron which sharpener he thinks would best serve that purpose. The other option is to follow the elk man's advice above and have your Grizzly broadheads sent to Ron. Ron will lower the bevel and send you back a Grizzly as sharp as it gets. From that point you'd only need to match his bevel to maintain the edge, which is not that difficult.

In the end, "Grizzly" needs to get off of their butt and get the angles set closer to Ashby straight out of the pack. If they do not, people will dump them in favor of the Abowyer Brown Bear, or the soon to be released STOS Ashby. I've shot Grizzlies for nearly as long as they've been made, and continue to use them because they work well. BUT, as good as I am at sharpening them, they can be a pain at times:)

later,
Daddy Bear

[Jason Jelinek]

I don't know if you can even call what Grizzly sends a bevel.  It's not consistent and gets worse as it gets near the tip.  However, once the bevel gets knocked down to 25 degress (I use a disc sander with a 2x4 jig, SOS had a great post on how to do it), the heads come out at 175 grains.  I then create a smaller secondary bevel of 30 degrees and can get them sharp.  Once the bevel gets set at 25 degrees I really like the Grizzly.

If the Abowyer Brown Bear came in at 1" wide and 3" long, I would buy them over the Grizzly 190 El Grande.

[Daddy Bear]

fireball, read the thread at this link. This is with the current 160s which is now hardened like the 190s. I use the same technique on the 190s. Several threw in their suggestions as well. It will give you some basics and will cover the types of files that are normally used for this task. Once you get beyond that initial grind, the Grizzly will reveal a great edge and will hold this edge through much abuse. You will notice this if you carry broadheads in a backquiver as many of the softer made production heads will quickly dull before they ever make it onto the bow string. Many will dull going through the onside hair and hide. The Grizzly will go in sharp and stay sharp:)

 http://***********.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm?threadid=179670&category=88#2247479

[Dave2old]

Daddy -- I don't think you and I are disagreeing even slightly. I made exception for those who have the skills and tools to do it right, which you clearly do. But for folks like Fireball and myself and a majority I'd guess, it's so much safer -- and if you screw up a few packs of Grizzlies trying to figure it out, less expensive -- just to send 'em off to KME to set the edge and do an initial hyper-sharpening. After that, I find them easy enough to maintain. I may be wrong, but I believe Ron has Grizzly blanks and can customize them for you -- left or right bevel, and the weight head you want -- without buying heads and sending them to him. If he doesn't show up here pretty soon, I'll give him a call for the scoop. Daddy, I envy not only your sharpening skills, but your patience in getting 'er done! Dave  

[Molson]

Ron does have the Grizzly blanks and Tusker blanks for custom heads.  He's also got a great new file and is working on a jig that will keep the consistent angle for those who have difficulty.  My Grizzly's come off ready to strop with this new file that Ron found in just a few minutes.  As was mentioned above, they are almost all 174-176 grains when the bevel is changed.

[DBerrard]

Interesting... Anyone used the kme broadhead sharpener on 200 grain tuskers?
I'm wondering how many grains are taken off during the sharpening process.

[Sharpster]

Hi Guys,

Been watching the thread but, I'll need to post a few pics to clear up any confusion... I'll get some this weekend.

First, both of our sharpeners are honing tools, not grinding tools. For out of the pack Grizzlies or Tuskers (and a couple others) you'll need to do some grinding or filing first.

If you're not good with a file, then the broadhead sharpener with some 120 grit wet/dry automotive sandpaper will save a lot of time, sweat, and cussin. Put the sandpaper on a piece of plate glass or tile and use lots of water. Then just work it with the broadhead sharpener. It won't take metal off as fast as a file but, still a lot faster than the coarsest stone could ever get it done. Stay on the sandpaper till you have a good burr running continuously from end to end of the blade. As stated above, the tip section needs the most work and will be the hardest part of the job. After you have raised a burr with the sandpaper, you can switch to stones for the final sharpening, or some guys just keep using the sandpaper in progressivly finer grits up to 2000 or more.

The broadhead sharpener is not angle adjustable and will bevel a Grizzly at around 29 degrees. Not Ed's optimum 25 degrees... but not too far off, and it will be sharp and very durable.

Don't even think about doing a Grizzly from scratch with the knife sharpener... This is definitely a finesse tool. It will get them crazy sharp after the bevel has been set by filing or grinding but, not even the coarsest diamond stone is up to tackling an out of the pack Grizzly. Personally, I prefer the knife sharpener for "tuning" or resharpening very large broadheads like Grizzlies and Ace heads, and the adjustable angle lets you duplicate any bevel angle.

That said, I know lots of you use the broadhead sharpener and there's no doubt that it will tune them too. Just personal preference.

Honest advice... If you really want to shoot Grizzlies but, you're not good with a file, then send them to me. I'll do the hard part for $5 apiece. After that, either sharpener will keep them plowing hair with no more effort than any other broadhead.

I'm not trying to get anyone to spend more $ than necessary, just that I've talked to sooo many people who have spent hours (even days) on one head... and that just doesn't make sense.

Ron
800 561-4339

[Daddy Bear]

Ron, let us know what you can if you have plans to sell a file and jig to make the initial grind. I know you have tons of work on your hands, but if you could package and sell that like your knife and broadhead sharpeners, I'd imagine everyone that uses a Grizzly would purchase one:)