help- i'm having trouble making flemish strings.

[ozy clint]

countertwist, don't twist????? i need to watch someone i think.

[Jeff Strubberg]

ozy,

When you lay up your loop, you are twisting the ply away from you, then bringing the bundle over towards you, correct?  If so, that's all the twisting you need.

I can probably get the wife to help me make up a video, but once you see it you're going to go "Sheesh, that was easy".

[michiganbowguy]

does this help...


  YouTube - string video 028

[ozy clint]

sorry, not really. show me what you do to the bundles before you twist the 2nd loop. twisting up both the loops is easy.  getting the bundles to be untwisted after you've finished both the loops so that when you twist the string to get the brace height it has a round cross section instead of looking like to wires twisted together. that's the hard part.
also ending up with a finished string that isn't to short is a problem. can't seem to allow for shrinkage with all the twists.

i've tried counter twisting both ways and no twisting same result. maybe somewhere i've counter twisted the right way but over or under done it.

[Bert Frelink]

Clint,
Do you ever venture East, into Alberta?
I would be happy to let you watch and might even have a string jig here with your name on it.
Practise and more practise, once you get the feel for things it will all seem too easy.
Let me know, would be happy to help.
Bert.

[PICKNGRIN]

I have found when doing the second loop, it is very important to be sure the 2 strands you are going to braid are equally tight.  I will put my first loop over a nail or a peg and check my 2 strands to be sure that one is not sagging.  If you braid them with one sagging a bit the string will look like you are describing.

[csdqm2]

There is a great video on YouTube, like they say a pic is worth a thousand words and at least 47 opinions.    I like doing it without a jig, I can allways pack a spool of string and a serving tool but a jig is way to big. It's a 2 part video here is the link for the first one.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DFALhztLrE&feature=related

[ozy clint]

yeah i've already watched those two videos. it only shows him doing one loop.

i'll get there one day.  

[Jeff Strubberg]

ozy,

Once you finish the first loop, just comb your fingers down the bundles to the other end, so there are no twists past your finished loop.  Then flip the bundle over and do the other loop.  You shouldn't be pre-twisting between the loop ends at all, if that makes sense.

Make SURE you do both loops the same direction.  Don't twist one clockwise and the other counterclockwise or you willg et a nasty surprise.

[ozy clint]

i've got the loops down pat. it's the helix effect of the middle of the string that gets me. also they always end up to short.

i have a string the length i want. so at the start of making the 2nd loop i started twisting the bundles together at the total length of the other string and it still turned out 3" short. i have a hard time allowing for the shortening that occurs with the twisting.

[bsigal]

Ozy, if you are using a flemish string jig, after the first time around measure the length of the string.  It should be 16 inches longer than the length of the finished string that you are trying make.  Doing this will ensure that the finished string will be the right length.

Ben

[ozy clint]

thanks

[LBR]

I'll try to help.

First, you don't "need" a board/jig--it just makes life easier, especially if you make a lot of strings.  

Going by a bow's "AMO" length is hit or miss.  AMO says 3" shorter, longbow or recurve, but there's a lot of bows that don't meet AMO specs.  I've made strings that ranged from 1.5" shorter to 6" shorter than the AMO bow length.  If possible, know what length string you need to start.

Take the actual string length, then add 16" or so.  More won't hurt--you can drop strands like Joe does in the DVD (Doin' the Twist) if needed.

The problem you are having (string looks like two ropes wound around each other) is caused by a lack of back-twist.  After you complete the first loop, untwist the bundles until they are straight.  Count the number of twists it takes to get the bundles straight, then put the same number of twists back in, but in the opposite direction.  This should get you close--a little experimenting (take notes) will get you right on, if you do it the same every time.

The reason you do this is when you build the second loop, you'll be putting twists in the bundles but you can't get these out--the reverse twist will work out as you build the second loop.  When you get done, your bundles should be hanging straight (if you did it right), and will twist up like one string.

If you learn to do this properly, a 2 bundle will come out just as round as a 3 bundle.

I purposely make my strings about 2" too short.  I have a stretching jig that will pre-stretch the strings and get that much slack out of the twist and the material.  It's also really handy for serving strings and tying on silencers.

Everyone is a little different, and different materials will act a bit differently.

A usable string is very easy to make.  A really good string takes a little practice, but isn't much harder.

Chad