Pa Whitetail hunting

[khardrunner]

So I'm pretty new at hunting whitetails. I've done some reading, but I'd like some input on how I'm going about this. I have to hunt public land and I'm working at trying to scout as best as possible. There are trails ALL over the place, in no certain order. There are food plots in the game lands, but there's also corn and soybeans all over the land adjacent to the gamelands. I'd expect the food plots to be overrun with hunters anyway.

1) I've looked at the game land topo. It's 768 acres, but I can't seem to locate any natural funnels. There are no saddles, and there are at least 2 creeks that flow through the property. Here's a couple links (I've got nothing to hide on here, so I'll treat this as a learning experience).

 http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/game/maps/zoom_maps.asp?sgl=83&submit.x=11&submit.y=19&rgn=Southeast

 

Where do I start? I've been there twice and the maps are pretty accurate. There is another trickle of a stream that doesn't show up. The power line pass is very overgrown with most vegetation about 3-4 ft. high.

2) I've been looking at the southern end of the property for the following reasons:
- there's food near the edges of the property there
- the powerline pass allows me to see a ways
- I can follow the creek
- the road down there is severely overgrown, so there's no easy way in
- I expect this area to be the least populated

SO..any input/suggestions are much appreciated. I want to use this to learn how to scout properly.

[khardrunner]

By the way, I use the terrain link on the google map and zoom in to the south of Goram road and North of Bare road...to the right of the mark for Goram, Pa.

Thanks again!

[mountainman]

its nice to see another trad archer in the area I live over in delta

[khardrunner]

Yeah I know there are a few of us here in the area. My wife was teaching down at Delta this past year. I haven't hunted in this area at all, so we'll see how it goes.

[Doc Nock]

Hey, Jimmie.

This young man needs someone closer than me to take him under wing... He hunts some of the same area I used to up toward Sunnyburn and around till it got developed.

He and I might hook up, but it's a hoof for either of us.

You mentored this ole dawg well, wanna try another younger, prolly smarter one?    

[jlbpa]

Check out the allegeny national forest north of Dubois if you get to feeling cramped in game land 83.

[bigbuckmalik]

There is surely order to all of the trails. Just not to you yet. You have to figure out where they come from and where they are heading. Let just assume bed to feed and feed to bed.  The crop fields near the south end are going to attract deer but maybe till not after dark. If its anything like southwest pa. When scouting a large piece of woods you have to look for differences in the terrain that will make most of the deer in the area go a certain way. Example, a ravine. If its steep enough and deer go through that area, 9 outta 10 times there is gonna be a trail at the top of it so they dont have to walk through it. If you can find a good section of white oaks, your in power. Just remember when they get to where they feed on acorns, they can mill around and feed for hours without moving 50 yrds. So you gotta find out where they bed and assume they are gonna feed on the acorns, get between the two and watch the wind. Another of my favorite stand sites is a bench. Find a steep hill that is broken up by a bench and there is gonna be a trail on it. Deer are lazy and unless pressured are gonna take the easiest way from a to b.  Setting up on the powerline to observe is a great idea. As long as you can see fairly well, you can see which trails most of the deer use. Then you just head in another day and intercept them. Remember where you see alot of does.  When the rut kicks off, the big boys are gonna know where to look for them.  They are usualy gonna scent check those areas by just walking on the downwind side and lettin the wind do all the work. By that i mean, a buck can check a hillside or hollow by skirting the top of it as long as the wind is telling him if there are any potential girlfriends. Or he may work the bottom, depending on the wind. Just a few pointers that come to mind that work for me.

[khardrunner]

Thanks guys. You are giving me a lot to think about and to apply to my situation. The more info, the better.

bigbuck, a couple questions...
1) How can I tell white oaks from all the others? I looked up leaf/bark images, but are there any tell tale signs that set them apart?
2) What is a bench?

It seems to me that the trails tend to head perpendicular to water for the most part. I've probably only spent about 5 hours out looking around, but I still can't make sense of the trails. I follow them until I loose them. Also, I can't always tell which are deer trails and which are trails that hikers/other hunters use. They all have some deer sign (prints and poo).

Like I said, the more info, the better. Thanks again!

Doc, thanks so much again for your help. I do plan to visit soon and I thank you for all your help. I didn't hunt much when I was younger, and when I did it was up in AK...so this is pretty new to me.

[Three Arrows]

White oaks have bark that is scaled and craggy.  Red oaks have smooth bark and is not scaly.  Benches are flat areas that form on the sides of some slopes.  Instead of a straight drop, you will see a flat area on the downslope.  In PA, I have taken ALL my deer on oak benches.  Walk the powerline cut and look for benches and crossing trails.  Then look for the same sign inside the woods as you go back up.  I also look for terrain changes such as mature growth to new growth in trees, and brush to wooded.  I always clean my nostrils out with warm water before a scouting trip so I can identify the smell of an area that has recent deer activity and bedding.  It is very musky smelling.  Once I find the staging and bedding areas, I do not go back to it until hunting season.  I have seen whole herds of deer in a day pass thru these areas, and they are mostly found on benches in PA.

[sj_lutz]

Sometimes benches will show up on topo's, sometimes not.  If you see a mostly uniform spacing of contour lines on a ridge or hill, but one or two spots where the lines space out a bit, it's a good bet that's a bench.

[George D. Stout]

Think of a bench as a park bench; a flat spot in a vertical environment.  It's the same on the mountain.

Deer generally do not go from a bedding area to water or food in a direct line.  Their trails will mostly parallel such areas with smaller trails cutting off to the feeding/drinking spaces.   Don't follow the deer trails...you will go crazy.

Find good areas to bed....then feeding areas and water.  Deer are browsers and get most of their food from buds, twigs, etc.  They are not grazers first, although the do that.  They eat their way wherever they go, so the whole area is probably a food source.

When looking at potential feeding areas. look for thicker areas that approach them, these areas will allow the deer more cover to and from and provide a funnel, more or less, for them.  Around my hunting areas here in Pa., deer will have perimeter trails around fields, oak plots, etc., where they can wind check those areas before exploring them.  

Spend time in the woods there during deer movement but not so much that you become conspicuous.  You will get a feel for the travel patterns if you pay attention.  Don't overthink yourself...Deer are guided by their biology...food, drink and sex drive.  Of those, they do two of them almost daily....eat and drink.  Early season that's what you need to focus on.  Remember....they are browsers first; look for snipped buds on small saplings, and where they have eaten leaves or nuzzled acorns.

Learning to read the woods is as important as shooting the bow.  Make it a learning adventure.
You don't want someone to give you all the answers....just get you walking in the direction.

[khardrunner]

Thanks George, I think you really understand what I am after.

What distinguishes a good bedding area? From what I've read and can figure, they like tall grass/shrub areas that they can hunker down in. It seems as if finding the bedding areas are key, but I really don't know how to do that. When I was walking along the powerline pass, which is high ferns and shrubs with little trees, I though it might make a good area. It wasn't wide, and you could see/smell a while toward the tops of the hills. Plus, I though I could make out matted down areas that would be about the correct size. Then again, I really don't know what I'm looking for for sure. What do you think?

Thanks, I appreciate your patience and help!

[George D. Stout]

Look for a higher place, where they can watch down the ridges and have the wind at their back.  It doesn't need to be really thick.  I've seen them bed frequently in open woods areas here just below the ridge crest.  They will also lay-up in limestone rock areas.  I find around here, the will lay on the leeward side of the ridges, far enough from the top to incorporate the wind in their favor.  I've also seen them bed in corn fields, and overgrown briar patches.  Look for lots of deer poop, matted areas and obvious beds in suspected areas.  And, the number of beds don't necessarily mean the number of deer.   I watched a  mature doe once as she lay in several different spots in a two hour span.  When she left it looked like there were three or four deer that had bedded there.

You will also note that deer rarely walk into the wind, not matter what folks tell you.  Around here they will more than likely quarter with the wind, so the breezes can tell what's behind them as they watch what's in front.

[khardrunner]

Thanks again. I never thought to use the wind to find bedding areas.

You guys are great!

[mountainman]

If you would like to try some of my hunting areas let me know I will be going to jefferson on sun to a hunt of a life time shoot my son is doing a trick shooting demo for them if you are interested let me know i can swing by and pick you up

[bigbuckmalik]

I'd say the other guys covered your questions about  benches and white oaks. I googled white oak pictures and if you do some lookin you will get a good idea of what to look for. Also when scouting look on the ground for old caps or old whole  acorns if you think you have found some oaks. Thats a sure indicator. Also, dont forget about apple trees. Deer love apples and in my experience will check em out everyday. Not sayin every deer around, but a definite stand site.  Some years the apples will be gone by bow season in my area. Sometimes they stay on into it. But they will come back and check for them for a while after they are gone. Apple trees are by far my favorite place to hang trail cameras. You would be suprised to see how often i get pictures of big bucks there at all times of the day. Also a good place to get a camera stolen!!!

[Roy Steele]

All above is sound avice but now is not the time to scout.I do all of my scouting in Jan.Feb,March,Apr.then leave my areas along.I've already picked out my aproach and yes leaveing routes.And the WIND,you must learn to hunt the wind.With out learning this youtime spent will be useless.You must burn this point into your head.Alway think wind direction.Major sites as well as seconddary sites and sites that I can use other hunts.Mark these on topo's as well as last years rub lines.Deer only rub where they fell safe and I look for old rubs deer use the same areas year after year after year.Trails with rubs of a couple years will be a good place to start.Mark all old rubs,all trails,white oak flats other food scources,all doe group beding areas.Keep doing this and in a few years you'll have a differnt pattern.This will get you started alot to digess,deer hunting is alot of hard work long before you kill a deerand alot after.I been doing this for 40 years and if you want to be kill your bucks year after year this is the ground work to get you started.PM me it you have questions.I love to talk deer.