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Author Topic: state antler-pt restrictions  (Read 1658 times)

Offline jonsimoneau

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Re: state antler-pt restrictions
« Reply #80 on: August 08, 2009, 03:43:00 PM »
I'm pretty much for anything that allows more bucks to reach maturity.  More bucks reaching maturity means there are more bucks out there period.  Lot's of people will get to see more big bucks.  I don't care who you are...everyone likes hunting deer where there is a chance to take a big one.  Im not sure antler restrictions always work, but it's worth a try.  Most states would have better luck by limiting or eliminating gun seasons during the rut. That is why Iowa is so good for ALL deer hunters.  There is no gun hunting during November.  This means more bucks for everyone.  It sure seems to be working well for them.

Offline jcar315

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Re: state antler-pt restrictions
« Reply #81 on: August 08, 2009, 03:58:00 PM »
Just came back from talking to the farmer who's land we hunt. Something interesting came up. The state of Maryland contacted him (a farmer) and asked him to take a survey about "deer management" and how the state was doing. His words were "terrible....still too many deer causing too much damage."  Begs the question: who is the state managing deer for? I don't think hunters are at the top of that list. If that is the case what is truly driving the antler restrictions? Don't know about you but I can't remember the last time I had someone from the state call me to inquire about my opinion of how they were doing managing deer. What other groups are they questioning? do you think just maybe these other groups have an influence on policy?
Proud Dad to two awesome Kids and a very passionate pig hunter.

Right handed but left eye dominant.

Proud to be a Native TEXAN!!!!!

"TGMM  Family of the Bow"

Offline Dave Bulla

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Re: state antler-pt restrictions
« Reply #82 on: August 08, 2009, 04:38:00 PM »
"What other groups are they questioning? do you think just maybe these other groups have an influence on policy?"

Well, two I can think of off the top of my head are insurance companies and land owners.  I can tell you for certain that insurance company lobbyists are very powerful with state politicians.  Probably compare evenly with the NRA in strength.  They would like to see the deer all but wiped out and have pretty much come right out and said it.  Insurance company lobbyists are there in the interest of big money companies.  The only thing that comes close to counteracting them on point of view are statewide hunting organizations and economic impact studies reporting on $$$$ spent by hunters and it's impact on the state.  

Landowners rights I would place above those of hunters when it comes to managing natural resources.  I don't have any problem with the state contacting farmers for their input.  What I don't like is when farmers complain about deer numbers but won't give permission to anyone to hunt their land but again, it's their right and I'm certain have valid reasons.  Most states also hold open public forums to discuss important issues or proposed changes to the game laws where hunters can go to voice their opinions.  Sadly, few take the time or trouble to do so.  Heck, few bother to join their state or local hunting organizations where at least they could give input that might get forwarded to the state by the more outgoing members.  I know here in MO, the state organizations have had a lot of input on the issue of crossbows in archery season and I believe it has made a difference.
Dave


I've come to believe that the keys to shooting well for me are good form, trusting the bow to do all the work, and having the confidence in the bow and myself to remain motionless and relaxed at release until the arrow hits the mark.

Offline Mojostick

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Re: state antler-pt restrictions
« Reply #83 on: August 08, 2009, 06:11:00 PM »
jcar,

The states aren't managing just for hunters. There's lots of other variables. There's crop damage, auto accidents, disease concerns with livestock, overall natve habitat destruction, etc.

Too many hunters believe that the DNR's are there to create the "best" hunting for the hunter. That is not the reason for DNR's. Deer hunting is the tool to manage animal numbers. Deer hunter management is not being managed for hunters to have targets. Hunting rules are there to either grow, reduce to stabilize deer numbers.  

Antler regs are not about creating "big bucks" for "trophy hunters". They are about trying to guide more hunters into shooting more antlerless deer.

Notice the farmer said "too many deer". That's the case in more and more of the country.

It sems counter-intuitive, but states can best control how hunters will act with antlerless harvests by how they control buck harvests.

Buck harvest and antlerless harvest are not mutually exclusive. Quite the contrary, they are completely connected and often dependant on each other. The more liberal the buck tags, the more hunters will focus on bucks and ignore antlerless deer. The more strict the buck tags, the more antlerless deer hunters will take.

Offline geno

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Re: state antler-pt restrictions
« Reply #84 on: August 08, 2009, 10:41:00 PM »
All we hunt with is landowner tags anymore. The state of MO. does a good job sending us a questionare about how the season went, Did you kill?  are there more Deer or less ECT..What exactly they do with the info I do not know.
"Learning how to shoot a bow is easy if you learn the right way"..Howard Hill

Offline 2-BIG

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Re: state antler-pt restrictions
« Reply #85 on: August 09, 2009, 02:04:00 PM »
I have dreamed of killing huge whitetails since I was just a youngster. I think most every hunter shares the same dream, but this is my "opinion" of what has happened to the mindset of bowhunters since I began hunting 33 years ago.  :readit:  
I was self taught and bowhunted on my own from the time I was 10 years old. My dad was a trapper and loved hunting squirrels and pheasants but just wasn't into deer hunting. Luckily we lived in the country where I had access to literally a few square miles of farmland dotted with small woodlots and thick brushy fence rows and lots of CRP land.
All the farmers in the area knew me and at one time or another I did some work for most of them like bailing hay and straw, pulling weeds, picking up rocks, milking cows, etc...and I had unlimited access to hunt.
I absolutely lived to bowhunt and the sight of a forkhorn would turn my legs to jello with excitement. I was reading Fur-Fish-Game as soon as I was old enough to read and then began reading Bowhunter magazine and in my teens I read the Wensel and Rothaar books.
Shooting does was a BIG no-no back then but when I finally decided to take a doe with my bow I found out that it was just as much of a thrill as taking a buck yet I still dreamed of closing the deal on a big bruiser.
Fast forward to today, I still cherish each and every hunt just as I did when I was young but I now know that taking the surplus does is a good thing and I do so willingly.
As the past few decades have turned everyone who hoped to get a big buck into stricktly trophy hunters I have seen hunters attitudes change drasticly and mostly for the worse.
I have been told at DNR meetings that since I do not wish to mandate ALL hunters to pass on certain size bucks that I am stupid and don't know how to hunt. I witnessed a QDM representative go ballistic with 4 letter words at a whitetail users group meeting because everyone did not agree with his ideas.
I watch the QDM program on tv and read articles on QDM and in my opinion it is no more than trophy hunting...period. They show a biologist saying that if a deer reaches a certain age and he does not reach a certain "SCORE" then the deer is to be taken out of the herd so it does not pass on its genetics! They show management hunts where undesireable bucks are killed.
QDM representatives show up at DNR meetings and push for crossbows in archery season and advocate inline muzzleloaders in primative weapons seasons. The feeling I get from observing this is that as long as it gives them an advantage and aids them in killing trophy bucks then they are all for it.
I have met teenagers that tell me how I should hunt because they have grown up with this trophy hunting being pushed at them. I have read articles where a father actually said that his 17 year old son has killed several bucks but not a P&Y buck so he wants to help him by buying him an outfitted hunt where success is guarenteed on a huge buck! I killed my 1st buck with a bow at age 17 with LOTS of hours invested...no instant gratification buck for me!
Where will it all end?  :confused:  
Now for those that know me and think I may be only telling 1 side of the story let me clarify something....I have hunted with outfitters, I have hunted on leases and still do, I hunt states where big bucks are much more common than my home state....BUT this is all a personal choice and having your own personal choice on what makes each of us happy is my idea of what the DNR should allow us.
The wildlife agencies should be concerned about land carrying capacity, habitat, sex ratios...etc.
In our state we would see better age structure and more bucks if we went from our current 2 buck limit to a 1 buck limit and if we were mandated to use a buck tag on a button buck. Hunters already understand that harvesting does is necesary.
I don't want to force other hunters to pass on certain size bucks so we can have a huge buck behind every tree. To me it wouldn't be a special hunt to kill a giant knowing that he only got that big because hunters were forced to pass on him. I want to kill a huge buck that got huge because he was smart enough to survive to get to that age.
Some ask who these groups are that the wildlife commissions seem to cater to and I say, just attend a few meetings and you will see the "trophy bucks special interest groups" that are at every meeting hounding them. When I attended several meetings representing traditional bowhunters I was basically scoffed at since we are such a small minority and we are seen as not being smart enough to be trophy hunters. Attend one of these meetings...it is a real eye opener as to who is ruining our bowhunting today.  :readit:    :(
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who are not. - Thomas Jefferson

Offline joebuck

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Re: state antler-pt restrictions
« Reply #86 on: August 09, 2009, 02:45:00 PM »
I'll go ahead and say this...........QDM has been a great highway to job place deer biologists graduates out of SC,GA,MS State and Stephan S Austin over last 15 years.........No doubt it works when followed closely ...........But talking a bowhunter down because he will bowshoot a 6 point and feel on top of the world for having a great bowhunting experience.....well, thats sipping different koolaid than me...........

Where did QDM originate? ....uummmmmhhh
Aim down your arrow because thats where it's going.

Offline Ia Hawkeye

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Re: state antler-pt restrictions
« Reply #87 on: August 09, 2009, 02:45:00 PM »
Iowa has no antler restrictions. A hunter can shoot any deer regardless of antler size. Need I say more ????

Offline joebuck

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Re: state antler-pt restrictions
« Reply #88 on: August 09, 2009, 02:52:00 PM »
Excellant Hawkeye!

It's an endless loop here in the south..
I believe QDM has worked against us here in the south. We're letting the bucks walk for horns but growing more food plots( for does) and increasing Deer Carrying Capacity.
Aim down your arrow because thats where it's going.

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