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Author Topic: What about the American Indians?  (Read 1834 times)

Offline gregg dudley

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2007, 10:22:00 PM »
I inadvertently made a comment out loud while at a state park viewing manatees to the tune of "That thing would have fed the village for a week."  The neighboring tourists seemed quite convinced that indigenous peoples would have treasured the manatee and somehow attributed some sort of sacred status to it.  I didn't bother to argue that native people would not have looked a gift manatee in the mouth.

Hunter/gatherer societies tended to exist in much smaller groups/numbers than those typically shown on TV.  They spent their existence in a nomadic pattern of following food sources coming together at several times during the year to trade goods and services. Acorns were a primary food source for many tribes, as were nuts, berries, fish and small game animals.  Native population centers of any size quickly turned to farming and raiding to provide the needed food sources.  

The Jack Paluh print showing the three native hunters smoking a bear out of its den is one of my favorites, as is his native fisherman print.
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Offline Negissimo

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2007, 02:06:00 AM »
This is kind of my passion and all of these are questions that I'm extremely interested in.

A book I'm reading right now on the history of the Comanche people makes it sound like once the Indians obtained horses they didn't have a hard time acquiring meat at all. Some of the southern  Comanche tribes actually gave up their fall hunt altogether, because they were either stocked up on meat, or it was always easily accessible.

For a warriors to gain status in the tribe their attention turned more towards accomplishments in war, rather than hunting prowess.

Unfortunately, the only thing the book says about the Indians killing the buffalo was that they rode along side of them and shot them or speared them.

Hunting is a skill to us, but to the Indian it was just the way things were, it was natural. I think they had quite a different outlook than what we're used to.

I have seen a well known bluff in Texas where the Indians drove the buffalo off of. My imagination went crazy trying to picture what a site it would have been! They say that you can find all sorts of artifacts at the base of it, I would have LOVED to have spent some time poking around but wasn't able to. The man I was with was the government trapper for the county, and the bluff was on private property.
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Offline Brian Krebs

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2007, 03:04:00 AM »
I have shot off a running horse at targets; even off a running mule. I used a 60 inch kodiak bow; and there were a couple rules. One is that if your shooting right handed as I do; you really can't take a shot to your right.
But you CAN make a full draw shot to your left; and if a buff was to your left; one would hope the shot would be at the right side of the buff; and thus; at the liver initially.
 You have to drop the reins to shoot. I have seen this depicted otherwise; but you can't come to a full draw with the reins in your mouth IMHO.
 That might be OK; as I think when you hit a buff in the liver; you better have a horse that isn't waiting for a rein: to tell it when ( or how) to get the heck out of there.
  The shot you can take is a narrow angle; I tried it bareback; and with a saddle; and standing  up in the stirrups makes for a better shot.
  It would take a well broke horse that still had a lot of zip in it to pull off shooting a buff- in my opinion.
  I would like to try it with buffalo.
The use of a deer head to draw in bucks really works with muledeer. I have used a cardboard one; and even used my hands to immitate ears to get them in.
  whitetails are more insulting.
  :campfire:    :archer:
THE VOICES HAVEN'T BOTHERED ME SINCE I STARTED POKING THEM WITH A Q-TIP.

Offline barebow

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2007, 05:29:00 AM »
Brian, if you ever get the chance to take a buffalo with a bow & arrow while on horseback, we’d like to hear how it went. BTW - I used to live in Grandview, ID for a while. I love that state and miss being there.
"Killing an animal is intrinsic to the hunt. It shouldn't be glorified, but conducted with respect and reverence..." - Gene Wensel _ Primal Dreams

Offline fflintlock

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2007, 07:05:00 AM »
There was a big difference in east, west, southeast and northeast, as well as the pacific and northwest, Canadian. Depending on time as well. With the "deer trade" going on in the southeast in the early to mid  1700s, the bow was quickly replaced by the gun. With the gun, you could get more hides to trade for more goods, killing at greater distances.
 There are first hand accounts of as someone mentioned above, smoking bears out of their den trees, whole deer hides, with head, being draped over a hunter, as a decoy, while other hunters waiting in ambush, shotting turkeys off the roost, by the dozens at a time, (both white and Indian shotting the turkeys), spears, reed traps and weirs in rivers for fish, (some are still evident still today, (the rocks pointing in a "v" shape) down stream. There were buffalo and elk in the southeast in the early 1700s as well. These were hunted around the "salt licks" of southeastern Tennesse, on ambush. River cane was thick and abundant in these areas as well.
 Depending were one lived, would depend on what one would use, east, hickory, was the #1 bow material, locust was used some as well, with sinew, bear gut, squeril gut, nettle, and many other plant life was used for sting material. Cane, dogwood and various other woods for arrows, again, depending on the location in the east. Some had no points, just charded in the fire after sharpening, copper or brass cones, heads hammered from brass tin trade kettles, steal trade points, animal teeth, bone, bills etc. for arrow heads, as well as the flint rocks. The Florida Indians used more bone, teeth and trade metals then rocks. Fletching was what could be had, there are many birds out there with large feathers, again, depending on what part of the country one lived in, you used what was at hand, or what could be traded for from other towns or travelers, both white and Indian.
 The Indians of the Southeastern United States, by John R. Swanton  is a very good read of early indian life.
 The Voyages of VonReck is another. William Bartram, Charles Hudson's The Southeastern Indians, is a good read too.
 Hunting was not year round for the Indians, it was a season crop, same as nuts, berries, corn, squash, fish, deer, etc. had it's season.
 In all of life, there is a season for all life. Every thing was used, nothing wasted. But the Europeons changed all of that in time. The Deer Trade, with the availability of the gun, about wiped out the deer east of the Mississipi, in the southeast. Long gone are the elk and buffalo, the turkey population too, fell on bad times.
 What was harvested, was for the good of the "Town" and everyone shared in the bounty. When the towns grew, they would split off in "Clans" and start another town, this was all done for a reason. Hunters would travel good distances to hunt the meat, many different "Peoples" had common hunting grounds, but only what was needed was taken, no more.
 My limited knowledge is only of the Southeasten Peoples, as my ancestors were once, I am a student and still learning of the old ways.
 It ain't like Hollyweird, it was totally different.

Offline oneshot1

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2007, 08:41:00 PM »
A little of topic but...Another passion of mine is hunting arrowheads and Indian artifacts. The 2 small points top around the center are from WA, the rest are from the Catskills of southern NY. There are a few true arrrowheads, some knife blades and most are spear/dart points. A spear needs no description... a dart was shorter, 4 to 6 feet, thin, light weight, flexable, they where thrown with the help of the atlatl, a handle type of dealy that helped to launch a dart to higher speed's/distance.   http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u232/oneshot32/000_6442.jpg

Offline ksbowman

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2007, 09:57:00 PM »
I chased three deer one time with a good cattle horse.She closed the distance real well and got to about 15 yards,then she decided that was close enough and after spurring her a couple times to get closer she blew up and the rodeo was on. Cows didn't bother her ,she would get right in there and push and even bite em now and then,but she didn't want any part of the deer.It would take a special horse to get next to a buff at a full run!
I would've taken better care of myself,if I'd known I was gonna live this long!

Offline traditional_archer

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2007, 11:11:00 PM »
I don't remember the name of the Hunting show, but one of the hosts was a bowyer and He filmed a Bison hunt of off horse back.  I wish I had taped that episode.  He gave the bow and arrows to the Chief after the hunt.  The other host was a musician.  Man I hate it when my memory doesn't work.

Offline Mulberry River

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2007, 11:31:00 PM »
Howard Hill relates his experience of killing a bison off the back an Indian pony mare in his book "Hunting the Hard Way".  It's a thrilling tale.
Some night you're gonna wind up on the wrong end of a gun...Vince Gill

Offline barebow

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2007, 05:22:00 AM »
ksbowman, I haven't ridden horses much, but I did get to experience one exploding into rodeo mode. That's when the auto-eject seat engaged and I was getting a birds-eye view of Mother Earth. I'm lucky I survived without a parachute. That's one time for sure that I'm glad I didn't have a bow and arrow with me.
"Killing an animal is intrinsic to the hunt. It shouldn't be glorified, but conducted with respect and reverence..." - Gene Wensel _ Primal Dreams

Offline Littlefeather

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2007, 07:19:00 AM »
I only know of one modern guy who has tested "Indian" style equipment(bows and arrows) as close to authentic as possible. He has shot buffalo with this very primitive gear successfully in front of Archaeologists and Anthropologists alike. This guys name is Doug Campbell and he talked breifly on page one. You might ask him to expand more on what he knows from gathering data first hand under very real conditions.   :thumbsup:   CK

Offline Negissimo

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2007, 01:25:00 PM »
Doug, care to share with us?

There was also an article in Primitive Archer about a guy shooting a buffalo off of horseback mimicking the way the Indians did it.
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Offline Islander

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2007, 01:32:00 AM »
There are books written in the 1800's about hunting buffalo from horseback. ( Read classic books by George Catlin  or James Willard Schultz  http://www.nogginworks.org/pqrst/schultz/mylife/myli_title.html   )

 Often it was called "running buffalo" A well trained buffalo running horse was quite valuable as it would respond to knee pressure as both hands were needed to shoot a bow. As soon as the horse got within several yards of the targeted buffalo it would stay alongside it for a few seconds then would veer off to avoid the possible charge of the wounded buffalo. It must have been exciting going  full out on a horse over rough ground ... some guys used muzzle-loaders they would carry the powderhorn around their neck and hold the lead balls in their mouth! No ramrod just pour in some powder spit the ball down the barrel maybe tap the gunstock on the saddle and hope the ball sits on the powder

Offline barebow

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2007, 05:30:00 AM »
Islander, thanks for the links to the books. I took a quick glance at the web site and it looks like some very interesting reading. As far as loading the muzzleloader on horseback goes, if I tried that method, I'd probably die of lead poisoning from swalling the lead ball.
"Killing an animal is intrinsic to the hunt. It shouldn't be glorified, but conducted with respect and reverence..." - Gene Wensel _ Primal Dreams

Offline Tom Uselding

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Re: What about the American Indians?
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2007, 02:14:00 PM »
I thought the Indians ran the buffalo off of cliffs to kill them.
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.  Semper Fi - Tom

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