I felt so dump and unable---but not for long! Trad versus wheels

[saumensch]

Hi,

an old friend visited last weekend and we went to my new indoor shooting range. (I took some dividing walls out of my grandfathers old unused barn and created a shooting range with 40 yards, some spotlights for night use, a treestand simulation and so on.)

He shoots a compound and doesnt shoot often (once a month at most) and i am shooting a recurve minimum 3 times a week 60 arrows.
After the first rounds (20 yards-30yards)where he had every arrow spot on and in 2 inch groups and mine where in 5-7 groups with some going completely wrong i was to say the least disappointed, honestly i was thinking about going compound myself!

But all should change when i suggested we´d try my moving target for the first time! I´ve hung a small (soccerball-size) target bag from the ceiling and attached it to some strings so another person or the shooter himself can move it in a sideway-swinging-manner or up and down.

Well, not one shot of the wheel bow was touching the moving target, but all trad-arrows made a hit! He couldnt sight in whiel there was movement and somehow it doubled my concentration or something else was happening because i was way better than with the non-moving target!

The moral is, dont give up, you just have to see the advantages and keep working on Trad!

Hope i didnt bore you,

Regards saumensch

[James Wrenn]

Well if wanting to drive tacks you won't beat a wheel bow with sights.However for hunting your 6-7 groups would score as well as hitting a 12 spot on most larger anmals.You don't have to be precise when hunting.The kill zone is 8 ring sized instead of 12 ring size and the results are the same when you hit it.  :D

[joevan125]

Well said James.

[BowMIke]

Besides, it's just a lot more enjoyable shooting traditional! Always challenging. Always room for improvement.(especially me).

[Altiman94]

I shot with a trad hunter at my local shop and he shoots just as good as any compound shooter ive seen out to 30 yards.  It's rather impressive watching him shoot actually.

[reddogge]

You've seen the advantage on a moving target.  You will also have the advantage on a shot that appears out of nowhere and you have to take it in a second.  He wouldn't even get the bow drawn.

[Hawkeye]

If you two guys would be going out to the woods, both happen to trip on the same branch and fall on your bows, and stand up to see a deer approaching to investigate the sound...

I know for sure which hunter (and equipment) I'd want to have my money on to make the shot!  :rolleyes:

[saumensch]

well, thanks for the encouragement!

Ohh, forgot to mention another advantage,
when we switched the spotlights off (it was getting slowly dark outside with only 2 small windows at this time) i said "lets try another round". my hits and groups didnt change as i was still seeing the dark spot/silhoutte of the target, he couldnt sight in anymore because of the sight beeing to dark to get inline with the see through.... no shots made...

Regards

[Tsalagi]

Very first bow I bought was a Martin Hunter recurve in 50 pound draw. Just walked in and bought it, a dozen arrows, quiver, glove, stringer, and armguard. I came, I saw, I went traditional.

[Bowmania]

You forgot the most important advantage - if you would have both shot something - YOU would have shot it with a BOW.  Your satisfaction would have been off the charts.  His?  Well, might have used a rifle.

Bowmania

[LimbLover]

I experienced the same on a moving target at a 3d shoot this year. Compounders were having a helluva time with it. I originally thought it was because they were using releases and sights but I've come to think differently.

Even compound shooters shooting without a release and instinctive have a slight disadvantage on a moving target IMO. This has to do with feel and the way both bows are drawn and released.

The simple design of a tradbow yields a much smoother and quicker draw. Compounds actually have to contend with the jerky motion of drawing to the letoff point of the cams, the foreign feeling of a mechanical release, and trying to factor in the speed of an arrow that is moving so quickly they can't see it once it is released until buried in the target.

A trad shooter has more of a connection with the bow because the tension is stored in their body. You can naturally feel the bow working/releasing energy and can feel the arrow coming off the riser. You can also follow the arrow to the target and have more control over what is going on.

Because you can't feel a compound operating as much, you have to figure the math out in your head. The bow essentially has more control over the arrow then you do.

The OP's friend would have to draw, hold, factor in the ball swinging, and calculate the time it takes for the cams to release and sling the arrow. We are talking miliseconds here but it is enough for the ball to swing slightly out of the way. He may have to watch the ball swing by 2 or 3 times before taking a shot to figure all this out. An experienced traditional shooter's body has figured most of this out for him already just by eyeballing the target. Less to think about - more time to focus on the moving target.

Does this make any sense or am I babling? lol

[Dave Bulla]

Sounds like you had good first hand experience with the basic trade offs between the two.

I've given a lot of thought in the past years of the different advantages or disadvantages of both compounds and recurves and have come to the conclusion that it comes out a wash for most people.  Let me explain.

I know a lot of compound guys who say they are "good out to 50 yards" and they really believe it.  I'm certain that on paper they are and that on a certain percentage of animal shots they would be also but it's the "oops factors" that come into play at that distance.  Unseen twigs, (harder to see the farther away they are) jumpy animals, bow noise, animals that simply take a step at the wrong time and the wind all make the long shots too low on the percentage chart in my mind.  Now, at 20 to 30 yards in good daylight?  That's where the compound shines.  For my longbow, I'm looking for a shot inside 20 yards.  Inside 15 is better.  Fifteen yards is about half the ethical distance for a compound so I'm on the loosing end of that comparison.  But, the trade off comes when shooting moving animals and making shots in low light which you just proved to yourself and your buddy.  With nothing to obscure my vision (i.e. peep, sight etc) tracking a walking deers vitals is done with almost zero thought effort.  Shooting in low light, if I can see the outline of the deer, I can fill in the blank and know where the kill zone is and make the shot.  I'd guess that I can gain an easy 20 to 30 minutes of shooting time over a peep sight shooter.  

Considering that most of the deer on the public land I hunt don't show up until just about quitting time when it's getting pretty dark, I'd have to say that the advantage goes to the trad bow and I'll take being able to make a good shot in low light over being able to make a longer shot in the daylight.

Then there is the durability of a longbow.  Some of you might remember that I accidentally drove over my longbow with my wife's '98 Expedition about two weeks ago.... it's still going!!!!  Try doing THAT with a compound.

And lastly, my longbow weighs about 25 ounces.  About 4 to 7 ounces heavier than a pool cue.  The handle is nice warm wood wrapped in leather.  Did ya ever sit in a stand in the winter trying to hold onto a metal handled bow with frost on the riser?  BBBRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrr.

So, like I said, I figure it's a wash just from an ability to hunt standpoint but when you throw in the fact that trad bows are just so much fun and you can come and hang out in a place like this, well, that just puts them over the top by a landslide!

[Plumber]

Dead is dead .If you want to drive tacks go be a carpenter.all you need is an 8-ring to get the job done.99% of trad guys cant hang with a properly tuned compound shooter.For me its about the style of our hunt.I know I feel a hell of alot better draggin a deer out of the woods after shooting it with my longbow.Nothing against compounds we all need to stick togeather.Iam just glad I switch to trad.It has change my entire out look on hunting.

[barley40]

Well now, a 30-06 with a scope beats 'em both. But then, that wouldn't be bow hunting. Bow hunting will always mean a stick and string.

[NorthernCaliforniaHunter]

Y'all have NO idea how much better this thread helps me feel.
I went shooting with a friend who uses a wheelie bow at a range last weekend. He flat SMOKED me, but all the targets were stationary.
Come to think of it, his draws seemed quite labored up to the let-off and it would take him a second or two just to find the "right" pin.

[NorthernCaliforniaHunter]

(No offense Mark!) Come on over from the "dark side".   :D

[jrbows]

Besides all of the above mentioned,how many times have you guys read an article in a magazine or watched a hunting show on TV,where some-one with a compound went on a 3-5 day hunt and didn't get to go out 1 day because of a "mechanical problem"?I haven't had one yet with any of my 30+ year old bows.Just lucky I guess.

[D. Devall]

trad bows can be drawn and shot faster, from more possitions (lets see a compound shooter shoot from prone) and easyer to hit moveing targets with, in my oppinion. they are lighter, easyer to maintain, and a heck of alot cheaper than a compound with all the fixins.

pluss that little fact of it actually being a bow, not a cable gun.  :D  

keep it up guys!

[Don Stokes]

Dan Quillian used to say, "You'll have your arrow in the deer before the compound shooter has lined up his sights".