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Author Topic: I hope this isn't a re-hash  (Read 776 times)

Offline Mudd

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I hope this isn't a re-hash
« on: November 23, 2009, 11:21:00 PM »
I tried doing a search to see if this topic hadn't been talked half to death and didn't find one. I still can't be sure because my computer skills are... well let's just say they could use some/a lot of improvement.

I'm interested in reading about the pro's and cons of shooting the classic "Robin hood" D style longbow. The bow that looks like a straight line when unstrung.I believe it's the same bow style that a famous archer once said "they don't get sweet until they get about an inch and a half of string follow"

Shame on you Dave Bulla...lol it was your thread that got me to thinking about how cool Errol Flynn was in Robin Hood especially when he was flinging arrows. I always wanted to shoot like that.
God bless,Mudd
Trying to make a difference
Psalm 37:4
Roy L "Mudd" Williams
TGMM- Family Of The Bow
Archery isn't something I do, it's who I am!
The road to "Sherwood" makes for an awesome journey.

Offline Rick P

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2009, 02:02:00 AM »
All of the arrows flung in the Errol Flynn version of "Robin hood" were cast by Howard Hill. He was also a proponent of D style long bows, have a look at the video archive section of trad gang some amazing footage!

As too your quote I cant place it exactly and hate half truths, so I can't speak to it.
Just this Alaskan's opinion

Offline **DONOTDELETE**

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2009, 02:17:00 AM »
That would be a English Long Bow (ELB). Back in the day everyone had to learn how to use one. They started out Young and the ones that where really Good would be able to Draw back Their 100+ pound bows and hit their targets out to 200 yards if not More ( If I remember right ).

(I hope I get this quote right)
Mr. Flynn said when making the Robin Hood movie. That Hill sure does make me Look Good when shooting a bow & arrow.

There was other movie Mr. Hill and his long bows where in but I don't remember them.

You'll have to wait for others to really tell You the pro's & con's of the ELB.

Offline Dave Bulla

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2009, 02:25:00 AM »
:biglaugh:  

We need a graemlin of a trad bug with a big stinger.

I think he's circling around ya Roy!  If you aren't careful, you might get bit!
Dave


I've come to believe that the keys to shooting well for me are good form, trusting the bow to do all the work, and having the confidence in the bow and myself to remain motionless and relaxed at release until the arrow hits the mark.

Offline SveinD

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2009, 04:33:00 AM »
Also, King Edward of England banned all sports, other than archery on a Sunday, to make sure the English got enough practice.
The ban was enforced from just before the 1300s..
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Offline **DONOTDELETE**

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2009, 06:19:00 AM »
A little Long Bow History.

The longbow dominated medieval warfare. Medieval England not only saw the use of longbows in battle but of several types of bows – the short bow, the composite bow and the long bow. In the Hundred Years War, the long bow was used by the English to a devastating effect. The long bow was also effective in naval battles. At the Battle of Sluys in 1340, English archers poured a devastating longbow attack on tightly packed French ships that suffered serious losses. At the land Battle of Poitiers in 1356, the long bow was responsible for the deaths of 2,000 French mounted knights – the elite of the French army. In 1346 at the Battle of Crecy, English archers devastated the French who lost 11 princes, 1,200 knights and 30,000 common soldiers. The English lost just 100 men. In this particular battle, 20,000 English soldiers defeated 60,000 French soldiers. This single battle is taken as proof of how just effective the longbow was as a weapon.

The kings of England encouraged the use of the long bow by sponsoring tournaments with good prizes for the successful archers. All other sports were banned on a Sunday except for archery. This meant that at any particular time, England would have a large pool of experienced archers ready to be called up for war. Each English shire had to provide the king with a certain number of trained archers per year – this was enforced by law. Many lords also made archery practice compulsory. Those who failed to attend were fined which was encouragement enough to attend.

It is thought that the first long bow came from Wales and spread in use to England. Edward I had witnessed its use when he conquered Wales in the 1280’s. The long bow was about six feet long and made from a yew tree. However, a shortage of yew trees meant that ash, elm or wych elm were also used.

The arrows for this weapon were three feet long with broad tips when used against infantry when their armour needed to be pierced and narrow tips to pierce the plate armour used by knights. Arrows were made out of ash, oak or birch.

An experienced archer could fire an arrow every five seconds. This rate of fire combined with many archers could produce a devastating attack as the French found out in the Hundred Years War. The short bow, as its title suggest, was between three to four feet long with a medium range and less power than the long bow.

How powerful was a long bow?

One story told in medieval times was that an arrow fired from a long bow could penetrate four inches into oak. Recent tests have shown that this anecdote is true when the arrow is fired close up. From 200 metres, a longbow arrow penetrated over one inch of solid oak – more than sufficient power to penetrate the armour worn by soldiers. Plate armour gave more protection but could still be penetrated from 100 metres. The maximum range of a long bow was 400 metres but at this distance, it was far less effective.

Offline Mudd

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2009, 07:23:00 AM »
OOOppppssss! I caused a false start down the wrong rabbit hole.Sorry!
I'm wanting to hear from those shooting longbows that aren't reflex/deflex. "The Americanized version of the ELB"(if you will). I only found two builders of the style I'm asking about, Howard Hill and Northern Mist. I would be willing to bet there are others.At any rate, even if there are only 2, it made me think that there might be shooters of this style of bow on here that could shed some light on what they loved about them and what to watch out for. I am trying to avoid re-inventing the wheel of trial and error since that route usually ends up costing me dearly in so many different ways.
Thank you for reading.
I can only say again, I'm sorry that I goofed up in my initial(re"quest"). I pray I un-muddied the waters a little.
God bless,Mudd
ps still looking for my strong suit when it comes to word-smithing.
Trying to make a difference
Psalm 37:4
Roy L "Mudd" Williams
TGMM- Family Of The Bow
Archery isn't something I do, it's who I am!
The road to "Sherwood" makes for an awesome journey.

Offline 30coupe

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2009, 07:40:00 AM »
The Martin ML-10 is a straight longbow. It's not as long as the true ELB. My son started with one. It's a pretty nice shooting bow, very quiet, little hand shock, but not especially fast. They are not cut to center, so correct spine is critical. The true ELB will have more hand shock and less speed than a R/D bow on average. It kind of boils down to what you like, which is pretty much the case with all trad gear. If you tune your arrows to your bow, then practice, practice, practice, an ELB will be just as effective on game as any other type of bow.
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Offline 2treks

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2009, 08:12:00 AM »
You can't go wrong with a Hill or a Northern Mist. Steve at N.M will help you out and knows alot about that style of bow. He has many to choose from.Give em a call. 906-485-5480
C.A.Deshler
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1986-1990


"Our greatest fear should not be of failure but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.”
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Offline **DONOTDELETE**

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2009, 08:29:00 AM »
I'm sorry Mudd, That was My Bad... Any mod that reads this can You Please delete My posts.

Offline 2treks

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2009, 08:34:00 AM »
Thanks for the history Sal. The "Hill" style bow was based on the ELB/composite I think so your history is good to go.
C.A.Deshler
United States Navy.
1986-1990


"Our greatest fear should not be of failure but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.”
~ Francis Chan

Offline Rob DiStefano

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2009, 08:41:00 AM »
as with most things in life, a straight limbed 'nostalgic' longbow is subjective and you need to try at least a few out before laying out dollars.

lotsa folks have made meat with self, composite, and wood/glass 'hill style' longbows.  

be very aware of the qualities, use and maintenance of each form of these bows.  

there are a number of bowyers that offer classic "D" braced modern wood/glass longbows that are mild r/d when unbraced - these bows will typically have a definite performance edge over straight bows, yet have that classic elb look and feel.

again, you NEED to play with some of these longbow styles before buying.  some bowyers offer a try-before-buying, and there's always trad events and clubs that offer bow trialing, too.
IAM ~ The only government I trust is my .45-70 ... and my 1911.

Offline Jason Jelinek

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2009, 09:33:00 AM »
In my opinion, straight limbed bows come into their own when they have a good amount of taper in the limbs, forcing the outer 1/2 to 1/3 to do most of the bending (i.e. nearly whip tillered).  The bow needs to be long, 68" ntn for 28" draw and 70+" ntn for a 30" draw.  This makes for an efficient bow that is whisper quiet, easy to string and doesn't take up much space when unstrung.  Most of my straight limb bows can fit in a 2" inside diameter PVC tube.

If you look at a lot of the Mary Rose ELB replicas Pip Bickerstaffe has made they are a bit whip tillered, and their draw weights are over 100#!  They are long, 73+" inches, and can be drawn to 30-32" in draw length.

A lot of the ELB bows out there being made (and I've made a few myself) have too much inner limb bending.  This creates a bow with a fair amount of handshock and reduces the efficiency.

Offline Paul/KS

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2009, 09:46:00 AM »
Hey Mudd,
Mike at Maddog Archery makes a real nice bamboo backed English style long bow. Very reasonable on the price too...  :thumbsup:

Offline Shakes.602

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2009, 11:04:00 AM »
Go to "Howard Hill Longbows", a guy named Craig is the Bowyer and he can get ya on the Right track!!
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Offline NorthernCaliforniaHunter

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2009, 11:49:00 AM »
I have a straight longbow. It was made by seigeworks, a sponsor here. I have nothing to compare it to since it is my first and only bow. With practice, I've reached a point where I hit what I'm looking at (or close enough). It's quiet, stores well, is light, nostalgic, easy to string, durable as all get out and cheap to replace. It doesn't hang up in the woods any more than any other bow (from my observation). You just have to be conscious of what you're walking through.
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Offline straitera

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Re: I hope this isn't a re-hash
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2009, 12:22:00 PM »
Can't get any simpler than a straight strung lightweight killing tool for beauty, elegance, & performance. Saldo, great job w/history references. PM me what book you read that.
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