padding endless string loops,....a how to..

[ozy clint]

i make my own endless strings and started out shooting dacron on my recurve, however i recently made the switch to D97 "semiskinny" strings. this lead me into padding the loops.

thanks goes to rob di stefano for his how to on making endless strings. i used to tie a knot in the last strand to complete all the lays but now i overlap them and serve over the top. you''l see later. this method got me thinking of how to pad the loops easily.
so here it goes, my 1st 'how to'. apologies if this method has already been explained somewhere before. it's something i worked out myself and thought i would share.
it's just a demo on how to pad the loops not the complete making of a string.

firstly lay out the strands on your jig, (do you like the jig i made?) what i do now thanks to rob is tie the 1st strand to the outside post, run out the strands for whatever strand count you are using then on the last strand come past the outside post, around and tie it off to the inside post. this gives you 1 strand more between these posts and hence this loop than the other.
   

this is what i'm talking about.
   

as usual turn your posts 90 degrees
   

now in a similar fashion get your padding material and tie it off on 1 post, i tie a little below where the main string body is to make it easier. now lay strands around the two posts to make up what ever strand count you want in the loops. i have been adding 1 padding strand for every strand in the loop. eg- the string pictured is a 10 strand D97, that means there is 5 strands in the loops. so then i put 5 padding strands in to make the loops the same strand count as the main string body. however as pictured the 1st loop will have an extra stand in it. i just put 1 less padding strand there to still end up with the loop having 10 strands. no rules here pad more or less if you want. just remember when you actually turn the posts again and form the loop you'll have double the strand count, (in this case 20 strands), until you start tapering it. later...
   

as per normal measure your loop length.
   

[ozy clint]

start serving the loop. remember to start 1/4" outside your 1st mark to allow some serving overlap when you turn the posts again and form the loop.
 

stop serving when you reach your 2nd mark. now then, to turn the posts straight and set the loop you'll have to cut the padding strands. think about it now!! the strands to be cut are on the inside of the main string body. cut these then turn the posts straight.
 


then move the string body on the jig to set the loop. where you stopped serving should be 1/4" behind where you started
now without having cut the serving thread i start to serve the main string body. get your overlap right then bring the server up underneath then over the far bundle.
 

then down between the bundles.
 


pull snuggly and now you find yourself serving in the same direction as you started and it locks the two bundles together nicely.
serve for a little way then start cutting some padding strands off then serve some more then cut out some more strands and keep serving in order to taper it in. plenty of wax helps here.
 

now you have to do the other end.......


hope this helps, clint.

[SHOOTO8S]

Not wanting to be negative BUT something to consider..... I did a little testing with padded loop endless strings and quickly discovered that the load bearing strands migrated to the bottom of the loop and negated the purpose of padded the loops.

Perhaps twisting the loop section before serving might serve to prevent all the load bearing strands working themselves to the limb side( much like a flemish) and the string becoming , in function, a skinny string again.??

[ozy clint]

good thinking rod. hopefully the tight twist i get  in the loop section while serving it will help as you say.

BTW, how did you find that out? did you remove the serving from a string?
cheers, clint.

[Passthru]

I mostly agree with Rod.
 
Double serve the loops.  Lay down some small diameter serving and go over that with with your usual end serving.  Reverse the rotation so you don't dig into the lower serving.

[trad_bowhunter1965]

Clint try a heaver serving material that might work like .021.Blake

[SHOOTO8S]

Originally posted by ozy clint:


BTW, how did you find that out? did you remove the serving from a string?

I served the end loops with clear mono serving, then used red D97 for the string and white Dacron for the padding strands....... just a few shots and it was pretty evident what was happening  

[frank bullitt]

Well there's part of the problem, mono serving! Would not use it, period!

Kind of like squeezing toothe paste out of the tube.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by SHOOTO8S:
... Perhaps twisting the loop section before serving might serve to prevent all the load bearing strands working themselves to the limb side( much like a flemish) and the string becoming , in function, a skinny string again.??

YES, padded loops should have both the main fiber and the padding fiber slightly twisted together to form a 'bundle'.  normally, the act of spinning the loop serving will take care of that loop twisting due to the serving tool tension.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by frank bullitt:
Well there's part of the problem, mono serving! Would not use it, period!

Kind of like squeezing toothe paste out of the tube.

mono and bowstrings = a disaster in the making!

grating the hard mono against the much softer string fiber is nearly like putting a rasp to soft wood.  we used lots of mono loop and center servings back in the 60's for 'smoother and slicker releases', not the smartest thing to do ....

[ozy clint]

[/QUOTE]YES, padded loops should have both the main fiber and the padding fiber slightly twisted together to form a 'bundle'.  normally, the act of spinning the loop serving will take care of that loop twisting due to the serving tool tension. [/QB][/QUOTE]

       as pictured, when serving, the loop section forms a tight twist because of the serving spool tension.

BTW, the serving thread used here is brownell nylon no.4

[SHOOTO8S]

Clint, my apologies for sidetracking your thread.

[Gordon martiniuk]

Clint ,, when I build a skinny endless string what worked the best for me was to double serve ends, first with .022 then with .030 halo makes strings easy on bow nocks and very quiet ,, good endless strings are better than flemish in a way as they don't need as much time to settle in and keep brace hight better for me ( less twisting up)