SUPER LIGHT ARROWS????

[Mike Byrge]

James makes a good point...when I'm having a "good day" I can shoot light/fast arrows very well.  On an average day though I have some arrows that are way off the intended mark.

I've never really like heavy arrows and mostly hunt with and shoot 9-10 grains per pound regardless of the bow weight.  

I did shoot a 90# pig last summer with a 380gr carbon arrow and 47# bow.  I hit it good but the results were impressive...the arrow looked like it didn't even slow down and kicked up dust for 30 feet after exiting the pig.

[JOKER]

humblehunter, I am not sure of your exact setup but the 350's may be to stiff, You might want to look at the 250's. Also if you are shooting a 60lb bow with a long drow (say 30+inches) it will shoot flat and have great penetration if you shoot around 9gpp.

[robtattoo]

Beer with that popcorn Tarz?  :D

[Terry Green]

OK....let's not get off track here...this is not light vs heavy......                          

OK, can't stand it...I'll chime in...out of popcorn anyway.     :rolleyes:    

"that it's old school thinking with new school technology and that this new stuff is better light."

OK......does than mean physics has been re-written?

[Terry Green]

Having coffee at the moment Rob.......bring the tecate for this evening would ya?

[Falk]

insttech1: a limb takes a flight from its parent riser straight for the empty cranium of the speed freak ...

     I LIKE that one! Really!

[Troy D. Breeding]

I tell for sure now that I've been too busy to keep up with things. How in the heck did I miss this thread?

Better start another pot of java and open another box of ceral for this one.

[bjk]

I have a question only somewhat related to light/heavy arrows more in line with where people usually go with this type of thread.

"The light arrow is bad for the bow thing"...we all know it is because someone told us.  We all know it is because it might be logical...but has anyone ever done any testing to determine how true it is and to what point.  Everyone regurgitates 8 - 10 grains...don't go below 8 or bad things will happen to you and all your decendants, but is there any testing?

What is the real limit...not what others in this thread repeat, or what BW will say when you call them...there might be some CYA built into the don't go below 8...just maybe

[Chris Wilson]

"Pro shooter" means he is a target weinie.

 The comment is not really appreciated, Tree Man.

[insttech1]

bjk--
Has testing been done?  Yes!  Can I provide exact references and results--no!

Every bowyer's bow will handle SUPER light arra's in a different manner.  Also, that same bowyer's bows, to the same spec's, may shoot that arrow fine from one bow, and blow up the next...

Why--because wood is wood, and grain structure is provided by nature...therefore hard to say some subtle grain defect won't become stressed to failure by the extra "snap" of the limbs without enough load (heavy-er arrow) to absorb the energy and impact from the string.

Look at oly limbs--they're shooting synthetic cores for a reason--stability, uniformity, consistency, production controls, and strength...

So yeah--the statement currently in vogue of "shooting arrows lighter than 9gpp will void your warranty" has some CYA built in...as those bowyers also have to pay for liability insurance!

Now for hunting situations--the heavy arrow will absorb more force, thereby attenuating vibration that would otherwise be induced into the limbs/riser--i.e. "hand shock".

That absorbing property also reduced noise, as the decibel level will be reduced if that energy isn't transferred back into the bow and the shooter's arm.

As for as penetration, you'll have to take that up with Dr. Ashby and his associated, quantifiable testing and reporting that he has so graciously provided for us...

Take Care,
Marc

[bjk]

Too bad, I would have liked to see some test results...I don't need to relearn the wood is wood and will behave differently based on arrow weight theory...that is all basic logic.

The same could be said about a bow with some subtle defect shooting a 12 grain arrow fine, but blowing when a 9 grain arrow is used.

I was looking for more facts related to the 8 grain limit (or what the true limit was for glass bows...maybe it really is 8)...just curious really...the light/heavy arrow, fast or slow discussions don't really interest me.  

My question will only take the topic more away from its original intention, I think....back to the regularly scheduled program.

[HumbleHunter]

Mr. Green,
I belive you shoot arrow dynamics......not sure though. If I'm correct, that's one of the heaviest carbon arrows on the market. I think around 12-13 grains per inch. Do you use weight tubes or weight inserts, or extra heavy broadheads? I also THINK you shoot around 60#s. I've seen your shooting AND killing ability with your skill and equipment setup. What do you think?

MY SETUP: 60#, 62" Damon Howatt Hunter recurve (the older one) I like 125 grain magnus II two blade broadhead (cause I can find them all over, they are screw in, and easy to sharpen) I'm fixing to put a flemish string, cat wisker style silencers on. I shoot off the shelf.

ARROWS: I'm thinking about getting Carbon Express Heritage 350's full length and do O.L.'s bareshaft tuning with just the 125 FP. AND I also might try em with a 200grn insert + the 125 FP. with O.L.'s tuning.

Would this be a good arrow in your opinion?

Does anybody know if the CXH350's are higher FOC then other arrows?

Thanks for yalls thoughts and replies! Have a good one. HH

[huntsmanlance]

Hey ya Dillon, i grew up in OKC and am now living in Moore. I know every bow shop there is around here! and i betcha i can tell ya which shop told you that....because me and a friend were told the same thing!!! In fact he bought 3 dozen. (the ones with the custom red fletchings)

Now i aint bashing the Thunderstorms. They do just spit right out of a bow!!! In fact my friend traded me a dozen of them for my wife to use out of her 35# recurve. When you shoot them through a chrono your eyes will just bulge right out of your head because of the speed....BUT.....They are only 29" from the get go...they have a very light spine....(i was told they were developed for light weight and kids bows)....and they are noisy as all heck!

They also worried me about hurting my bow in the longrun which sure inst worth it to me!

[shootrmn]

I have only been shooting trad for about 2 yrs and have no blooded bows so I can't speak to the question from that perspective. However I have been an avid varmint hunter and reloader for most of my life so I have some knowledge in the area of speed versus wieght when it comes to penetration. there is always a point of trade off where the speed factor can no longer overcome the lack of mass. A good analagy is a toyota pickup with 1000 lbs of load can be stopped by your average guard rail from a speed of fifty five mph but the same rail will not stop a semi going only thirty mile per hour. Most dagerous game hunters (buffalo, rhino, elephant) have always opted for large heavy bullets at modest speeds. Now for my own philosophy..... I hunt for meat and dead is dead.
Doesn't matter to me if it was speed or mass that caused the death. I personally shoot a 55# modern r/d longboww with arrows in the 500 grn range give or take 10 either way. I shoot carbon cause it is more consistant than the wood arrows I am able to produce at this time. I don't know for sure how fast they are but they have been called fast by wheelie bow shooters at the range. My hope is that if I do my part and Odin is smiling on me I will have turkey pics to post next week.

[Ray Johnson]

I guess superlight is relative to bow weight.I just bought a 40# Black Widow PMAV and have tuned some Easton Epic 600's out of it that weigh 400gr.Now that's 10grpp and for whitetail deer,that setup should penetrate fine.I guess for my bow weight the 400gr is really a medium weight arrow.My bow is quiet and I'm shooting 170fps with that arrow.If the next guy shot the same 400gr arrow from his 60# bow,then it would be considered superlight and would probably be loud with possible bow damage.I do think that a 400gr shaft from a 60# bow would be a very fast arrow and would certainly be more than adequate for deer and hogs.I think 9-11 grpp is a good rule of thumb to keep a bow quiet and still have adequate arrow speed.
                                 RayJ

[Lost Creek Bows]

I like 9 grains per lb. I use the same arrow on the 3-d and hunting. I just killed two hogs with a 397 grain arrow and snuffer heads out of a 47 lb longbow two weeks ago. 8.4 grains per lb I had pass through on both animals. I say shoot what flys straight. My experence with arrows are a straight arrow with a small shaft and stiff spine such as carbon arrows penatrate deeper. Just my own experience. I say if they hit where you look and they bare shaft tune shoot 'em.

[Tree man]

Originally posted by Chris Wilson:
 

"Pro shooter" means he is a target weinie.

  The comment is not really appreciated, Tree Man. [/b]

My use of weinie was ill considered, perjorative, rude and unkind. I apologize. I should have just said that Pro-shooter means target shooter. I'm sorry.

[HumbleHunter]

Huntsmanlance,
you're right on man. Thats the place. I shoot those exact arrows from a 43#er and really like em. But I'm not comfortable with that arrow from a 60#er. They are fast and loud! I too was told they were for kid bows. Those arrows are TUFF SUCKERS THOUGH!

[TSP]