fatter shaft..... now i'm shooting to the left.

[ozy clint]

i've been busy finding the right spine of shaft for the various weights of stone points i have. during testing with a steel field point of the same weight i'm consistently shooting to the left by about 8"-9". i'm mainly a 5/16" carbon shooter, now i'm doing my head in trying to shoot these 11/32" surewoods.    as soon as i go back to the carbons i'm back on target.  

i'm almost convinced that it's because of the thicker shaft sitting out at less centershot.

anyone else had a similar experience?

BTW, i'm a right handed shooter.

[Gottabow]

The fatter shaft moved your center out a bit.

[TheFatboy]

That would be my guess too...

[Guru]

I guess it might be the center shot, but that seems like an awful of left for such a minor centershot issue....

Can you make your side plate thinner somehow?

I've shot 23/64th woodies right along with 5/16th carbons and hardly noticed a difference...

I know you said it wasn't a spine issue, but if it were me, that's where I'd look again...

Good luck

[cacciatore]

Clint I'll do the same as Guru is suggesting me too,check also the Nocking point hight since with a fatter shaft it can change too.Do you cant your bow when bare shafting?this can give you a wrong response.

[Jim Curlee]

Dude;
Your shaft is too stiff, get a limper one.
Jim

[2treks]

Are you sure Jim? LOL
Spine is the problem, Change one thing at a time and I would start with the spine first. Go to a lower spine group until you get the spine that works with your point weight that you want to use.(since you are wanting to use stone, you point weight should not be used to tweak your tune).
Chuck

[phil_des_bois]

I have the same issue. The shafts are properly tuned, but with fatter wooden one I'll shoot left (couple of inches). It depends on the bow I use, with some bow I have a very small difference, with other bows I can have a large gap. I think it is mainly due to my concentration, it seems to me that the smaller one (axis or mfx) help me to focus more on the target (without even thinking to it), and shifting from one to the other is hard. I would just say shoot only the wooden one, then you will get use to it, but if you go back to skinny one you will shoot them to the right.

I'd like to see some test with a sight on the bow to see if it is the bow or the shooter that is affected (my guess is that it is the shooter).

Phil

[ChuckC]

I think it is a combination of the above factors.

By using the fatter shaft, you essentially changed your center shot, meaning you now need a lighter spined arrow.  And your wood arrow is the same spine as what you thought you would need.

Either lessen the spine, increase the center shot, or both.  

A pluck release can do the same thing, but if you can alternate between carbons and wood and get good / then bad I think that is not the issue.

Go get em and let us know what it actually was.
ChuckC

[MSwickard]

I use both wood and carbon arrows.  Most of my wood arrows are 23/64th and I have never experienced this problem.

What is your bow set-up?  poundage, +/- centershot, spine of shafts,length of shaft, head weight, type of fletching etc?

My initial thought is the shaft are overspined for your bow. You could try these shaft at a longer length and see how they fly.  I'd try full length and work down until you get proper arrow flight.  If the shaft is still shooting left when full length they are definitely spined heavy.

One area to be cognizant, when using wood shafts is to make sure you align the grain of the shaft correctly.  You want the tightest grain of the shaft to be perpendicular to the sideplate.  If not if will affect how the arrow comes off the bow.  if not the shaft becomes to whippy as if comes off the bow.

Give us some more info to figure this one out.

Mike

[Don Stokes]

Clint, you might be able to compensate by canting the bow more. I agree with the others who say that with a larger diameter you may need to adjust spine or the side plate.

[Jim Curlee]

Ozy;
You are talking 128ths of an inch, on the shaft diameter.
You are over spined.
Jim

[Possum2]

Canting the bow is what I experienced when I went form a cx 250 to a cxl 250 which is a greater diameter than the cx 250. The canting of the bow put me right back on target!

[ozy clint]

i want to be able to hunt with both my carbons and woods at the same time so i don't want to mess with the strike plate.

i'll have another play today with some arrows of spines between 40# & 60# with various point weights and try and eliminate the possibility of a stiff arrow. i've been shooting them at full length with fletching on. i break to many bareshafting woods. this is the 1st time i've shot woods out of my 54# limbs so i have no idea what spine range will work with the following point weights. that's is what i'm trying to establish.
it's just funny that no matter what spine or point weight combo, they are hitting left.

i have 3 stone points that weigh 136-145gr, 2 that weigh 177-180gr and 2 that weigh 90-95gr. i've been using steel points of the same weight for testing. they seem to fly well, they just hit left.
off to try again.    

[MSwickard]

ozy

Based on the info you provided and making some assumptions, shooting the 54# bow with full length 32" Surewood shafts spined @ 60 # that are 23/64, that weigh approx 13.4 gpi and using a 145 grain point and assuming your bow is using a B50 string and is +1/8 of center shot......

The shafts are way weak.  Yo need to cut them a 60# spined shaft down around 29".

You maybe get a lot of archer paradox.  The arrow is just not stablizing.  Even with the 90-95 point the spine is around 49#.

I'd try shorting to see if that helps.

[Hud]

The link is on the  www.acsbows.com  website under their Knowledge Base.
If you download their report on Bowtuning, you should find the answer to your questions.

 http://www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html

[ozy clint]

well i just finished another testing session and i'm bewildered with the results.            :confused:  

i did get one shaft to shoot well and where i look (most of the time). it is a full length 55#-60# 11/32" surewood with a 175gr point. ok, that's good i thought, that should give me an idea of what i need for the other spine ranges. WRONG!!

for the life of me i could not get a 50#-55# shaft to hit center. it consistently hit 8" to the left from 15 yards. i tried it at full length with a  bare point taper (no point at all) all the way through to a 300gr point.
the next spine range under, (45#50#), seems to be the same. surely it can't be a stiff shaft     :confused:    
i can't see how a lighter spined shaft with heavier points can appear to be stiffer than the shaft i have flying good.

i live in fear that i have a bunch of stone points that i can't hunt with because i can't get a shaft that will shoot them.  

perhaps a revelation will come to me in my sleep? i hope so!

BTW here's my specs- 54#@28" 58" bob lee recurve.  10 strand D97 string. draw length- 27 1/2"-28".

[Rob DiStefano]

aim the arrow.  get yer aiming eye down over the shaft and line up the string to the point to the target.  with a good release even a telephone pole arrow will go straight to the mark, albeit the arrow might fly and land not so straight.  this is how the real old timers dealt with shooting off their knuckles and arrow plates that were 1/2" or more past center shot and arrows of dubious spine not matched to the bow's holding weight.

[Billy]

Clint, you've been at our game for longer than I but, is there a chance that you are rolling the string on your fingers during the draw?

You said you've broken wood arrows during tuning before.

Is there a chance that you "know" the carbons are good and you're trying to protect the woodies??

I tried rolling the string to the left, during the draw, with some larger shafts; and that roll did lessen the left hits. Rolling did not fix the problem, it did make me aware that I was doing it at other times though.

Just a thought...

[Rob DiStefano]

here's an article by jim ploen (21st century longbows) on aiming the arrow ... might help somewhat ...

PART I
 aim1 - p.29
 aim1 - p.30
 aim1 - p.31
 aim1 - p.32
 aim1 - p.33

PART II
 aim2 - p.27
 aim2 - p.28
 aim2 - p.29
 aim2 - p.30