New thoughts on Stu's calculator

[lucky strike]

I was thinking about 2 things on calculator.
One is nocks.what was used uni and super nocks or conventional swage? I think the uni will show up stiffer on same arrow because of added weight.
Also what fast flight string? Now that fellas are making 8,10 12 strand and up strings that will defenetly change the fps and effect the bow figures.
So lets say you calculated a 2016 legacy(conventional nock) for a perfect match for your bow and then went to a super uni on the same  x 75 shaft(uni nock) and changed from an 12 strand ff to a 16 strand ff ,you probably would have to change shafts because the bow will have a weaker spine # and the arrow will have a stiffer spine #-Could get expensive with the x factors involved and also create alot of confusion.IMO

[NDTerminator]

I actually weigh the uni-bushing, wrap, and Super Nock then enter it in the nock end weight block. I weigh them as even though Super Nocks weigh a consistent 13 grains, the uni-bushing varies by size & the wrap varies greatly based on length & who makes it.  This all adds up to a considerable weight addition to the rear of the arrow, which increases spine.

And with alums, make of the point insert as well as shaft size combine to make theie weight inconsistent, so it's wise to weigh them too...

[MSwickard]

Your thinking too much!  LOL  Stu's Calc. is only a tool to help you to get in the ballpark when selecting a shaft.

Seems that it really doesn't matter much with FF type materials.  They all seem to shoot the same speed?

Just use the components you want then bareshaft accordingly.  

Mike

[TIMP]

where is this calculator? I am unable to find it. And I am not very computer savy, so I got that going for me.

[daveycrockett]

And just for grins and giggles, when you loose the swedge you replace the weight with the uni-bushing.

[NDTerminator]

Originally posted by MSwickard:
Your thinking too much!  LOL  Stu's Calc. is only a tool to help you to get in the ballpark when selecting a shaft.

Seems that it really doesn't matter much with FF type materials.  They all seem to shoot the same speed?

Just use the components you want then bareshaft accordingly.  


Mike

Thinking too much when safety & arrow flight efficiency for optimum penetration on live game is the goal? Odd charge, particularly in  regard to Trad archery...  

Too each his own, but thinking too much is working for me, believe I'll keep rolling with it.  

What has really struck me since I started using the calculator is how inaccurate most every arrow selection chart I've seen are (including those made by trad outfits), and how far over-spined I've been when I was sure I was right in the envelope, the last couple years.

It also illustrated how much you can get away with, in regard to trad tuning.  I've killed a number of deer with arrows far too heavily spined as my nock point adjustment allowed them to come off the bow straight, and I learned to adjust my hold to compensate for how they hit left/right...

Can't wait until the weather breaks so I can get outside and work towards an arrow that hits exactly where I look...

[metsastaja]

Purchase a digital scale from 3 rivers.
 http://www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp?i=5962  $20.00

Start weighing stuff.. be amazed the variations on field tips and BH out of the same package.

James the calculator may be found here  http://www.heilakka.com/stumiller/  for download.
You will need either excel or openoffice to run it.

[huntin_sparty]

In using stu's calculator how do you account for arrow wraps?  Ive been adding it to the nock end weight is that correct?  Also how do you account for weight tubes like the 3 rivers ones (that shouldnt effect spine)?

[metsastaja]

Nock End Weight
Enter the total weight of the nock and/or nock insert.   If an arrow crown wrap is being used then it weight should also be added.  
Ex: A 11/32" Bohning Classic Nock weighs 13.5 grains. A CE Nock weighs 9.8 grains. A
wrap typically runs between 6 to 15 grains.

Quoted from Stu's direction PDF  you can download it from  http://www.heilakka.com/stumiller/

[huntin_sparty]

Originally posted by metsastaja:
Nock End Weight
Enter the total weight of the nock and/or nock insert.   If an arrow crown wrap is being used then it weight should also be added.  
Ex: A 11/32" Bohning Classic Nock weighs 13.5 grains. A CE Nock weighs 9.8 grains. A
wrap typically runs between 6 to 15 grains.

Quoted from Stu's direction PDF  you can download it from   http://www.heilakka.com/stumiller/  

Thank you.  Sorry I shouldnt have been so lazy its amazing how clear things are when I read the directions!

[metsastaja]

I have put in an email to Stu regarding the weight tubes.  I am guessing use other as arrow selection
when you get to weight add gpi of tube to gpi of arrow. A little tricky since tube will be shorter then arrow by nock and insert.

OR just forget about it.

[Junglecat]

I agree on weighing EVERYTHING with metsastaja! My shafts that are advertised as weighing 10.0 grains per inch actually weigh 10.8 grains per inch.I actually discovered this when I kept getting a different overall arrow weight than Stu's calculator came up with.Mine made a difference of over 20 grains.Dont just accept the manufacturers word as gospel.Check it.

[NDTerminator]

Originally posted by huntin_sparty:
In using stu's calculator how do you account for arrow wraps?  Ive been adding it to the nock end weight is that correct?  Also how do you account for weight tubes like the 3 rivers ones (that shouldnt effect spine)?

Yep, wrap weight has to be added in, and the added weight does affect spine.  I use 7" x 1" or 1-1/8" wraps by Onestringer which weigh 11-12 grains.  I've found some of the over the counter wraps are even heavier.

I've never used weight tubes so, even though they are reported not to affect spine, I can't say.

I like to KISS so with carbons I add front end weight with brass inserts installed with hot melt, and use the weight point required to get the spine I'm after...

[MSwickard]

Thinking too much when safety & arrow flight efficiency for optimum penetration on live game is the goal? Odd charge, particularly in regard to Trad archery...

Too each his own, but thinking too much is working for me, believe I'll keep rolling with it.

 

Thinking too much is not a bad thing.  My off the cuff comment was addressing that we sometimes sweat the little things that really do not have much of an effect on the whole picture.  Yes it is important to build an arrow that maximizes the potential of ones bow.  Stu's calculator provides us with that tool. For that we all become a better bowhunter.

However, fretting over a few grains here and a few fps there is small in comparison to to what we will encounter in the field: wind, bad release, vegetation, not coming to full draw....the list goes on, all of which affects arrow flight.  The best thing one can do is make sure the a shaft is within their spine range and then build it up using the components they plan on hunting with.  Switching things up after an arrow has been tuned will require re-tuning, but that is expected.  Use the Calculator as a guide and make adjustment accordingly.  The Calculator is just a guide to help us maximize our traditional gear.

Mike

[NDTerminator]

Well why didn't you just say so, MS!...  

[Possum2]

The stu's calculator is a reference point to get you close to the spine that is needed. There will be different of varibals as with any arrow chart. Just remember this is a reference point. IMO.

Possum

[NDTerminator]

Originally posted by Possum2:
The stu's calculator is a reference point to get you close to the spine that is needed. There will be different of varibals as with any arrow chart. Just remember this is a reference point. IMO.

Possum

Yep, a very precise, exacting reference point...  :D

[metsastaja]

Oh and by the way if your inserts are longer then .9" then treat length greater as Footing

Footing
If an internal OR external footing is being utilized then select "YES" from the drop down menu. In
the boxes below enter the length of the footing in inches and also the total weight of the footing.
- An example of an internal footing would be any insert with a length greater than 0.9"
(std. insert length). In that case enter the amount greater than the 0.9" that is already
accounted for automatically.
- An example of an external footing would include be an aluminum shaft glued over the
outside of a carbon shaft. In the case of an external footing enter the total length and
actual weight.

as found in directions.. sorry wrong thread have to go find the other one.