Brace height and how do I aim and other newb quetions?

[-Joseph]

So I have been plinking for a few days now that my bow is mostly setup.  First off, my arms are tired and my fingers are sore.  I may look into a tab eventually but that is a different topic.  Here are my questions.  What should I set my brace height at, it is a Sears bow made by Bear, 60" AMO 45# @ 28".  I am wanting to start tuning the bow to shoot well, and I figure I should start there.  Right now it is right around 7.5".  I seem to get good flight but I am afraid that my form is terrible to say the least.  I am not very consistent because I feel myself pulling with my bow arm.  I think it is due in part to not really knowing how to aim.  Can I get the "dumbed down" version of how to shoot on instinct.  Also I shoot 3 under with a nock on top, I figure that way my fingers will hold the arrow against the knock everytime, is this OK?  I am just learning the trad bow so I know I am not going to robin hood every arrow but I would like to get to the point of putting them all on the paper plate.  

Lastly I have a question about arrows.  I am shooting a Gold Tip XT hunter 35-55 with vanes off an elevated rest (T-300 flipper).  This is my first experiment with carbon, seeing that my wheelie bow uses alums.  Anyhow, my aluminum arrows are set up with 3 vanes, with the individual(is this called the cock feather?) colored vane being 90 degrees to the string.  Those seem to work for clearance on my rest.  Well I went and got an xt hunter to try and the unique vane is set parallel to the string be it up or down.  It seems to me this is worse for clearance than the way the alums are.  Can someone please enlighten me on all this?  Thanks guys.

-Joseph

[lpcjon2]

There is a lot of info to be had on shooting in the shooters forum and some good info in the How to forum.They can be found by clicking on the trad gang.com tab above and scroll down.And on most carbons and aluminum arrows you can adjust the nock so the vanes or feathers will be in the desired position.I personally I am not fond of flipper rest and use a shelf rest I feel they are more stable.And you should have a set way to draw your bow and be consistent with it and this you work on as well as your form.Don't worry about aiming until you have good form.I suggest getting a copy of Hitten-em like Howard.This will help you with a draw technique. Good Luck

[Encino Man]

First off Joseph, 60# is rather heavy for a first trad bow. A 45# would have been a better choice. With 60#  you are going to be struggling with form for quite a while and take a greater chance of hurting yourself. I know you want to get out there every night in an attempt to get better, but sometimes that's the worse thing to do. Just like working out, you should take days off to let the muscles rebuild. I've had guys that shoot 70# compounds that struggled to get my bow 2/3's of the way back, just like I struggle to break that 70#'er over.

I shoot Gold Tip 35-55's off of my longbow which is a 53# bow. You should probably be shooting something a little stiffer like 55-75's.

I can't tell you about the vanes on that rest. I shoot feathers off of the shelf. But yes. It's the cock vane and it's usually perpendicular to the string, pointing away from the riser.

Welcome to the trad scene, and good luck with the bow.

[lpcjon2]

Encino Man,his bow is 60 inches length and the weight is 45#@28.I have to read thing twice sometimes to...LOL

[Orion]

Joseph:  You'll save yourself about 300 posts and a lot of time if you get yourself a copy of The Traditional Bowhunters Handbook by T.J. Conrads or Timeless Bowhunting by Roy Marlowe .  Welcome   and good luck.

[CaliCreole]

Welcome!,
I'm new to the sport to so i understand your frustration, another thing you could do is look up local archery clubs in your area and go to a few shoots meet up with other trad guys and pick their brain

[-Joseph]

I will have to see what the library, and Barnes and Noble have to offer.  So is my arrow incorrect by not having the cock feather perpendicular to the string?  That was how I bought it, but I have never bought arrows before so I had no idea.  How do I get the nock off to change it?  Thanks.

-Joseph

just dont give up! theres lots to learn and you will get frustrated at times , but keep at and it will all come to you one day, and youl love it.

[Encino Man]

Originally posted by lpcjon2:
Encino Man,his bow is 60 inches length and the weight is 45#@28.I have to read thing twice sometimes to...LOL

LOL, just too funny.

Nocks are fairly snug but they should turn. I usually use a knife blade or pliers.

[Rob DiStefano]

45# holding weight is more than likely too much for a newbie trad archer.  

you'll get plenty of good advice here at trad gang, but your best bet is to find a competent and knowledgeable local trad archer to mentor your shooting.
 
the following article should be of help to you ...

 trad archery newbies

the reason that cock feather aligns with the bowstring is the arrow was meant to shoot off a compound bow vertical compression flipper rest.  if the nock isn't glued in. twist it to the correct position so that the cock feather is at 90 degrees to the bowstring.

....

[Roughrider]

There are alot of other good sources of information, but a couple quick answers.

If you're not shooting with some kind of shooting glove or tab, and an arm guard, get them immediately - you'll prevent a lot of pain and bad habits.   Get the string well into the first joint groove on your fingers, not on the finger tips.  3 fingers under works great, as should your 7 1/2" brace height.  You may try anchoring with your middle finger at the corner of your mouth to bring the arrow up under your eye - a slight canting of the bow may help too - some like it, some not.  YOur arrows may be slightly stiff, might try heavy point weight, 150 - 250 grains and see how it works.

if you want to shoot instinctive, get feather fletched arrows, shoot off the shelf,  and get close to your target - 10 yards or less - to start out.  Concentrate on the middle of your target, not necessarily aiming with the tip of the arrow, pulling with your back, reaching and maintaining a solid anchor before release, and complete follow through on release.  Try to finish the shot with your hand behind your anchor point, not to the side or down, also, keep the bow up.  Shooting off the shelf brings the arrow close to your bow hand and makes "instinct" easier for many - kind of works with the anchor and 3 under as explained above.  Once you gain confidence and your form is consistent, then you can work on other things.

Otherwise, your draw weight and bow sound like a great start to me.  Try and find as mush information as you can, and an experienced trad shooter to shoot with.

[-Joseph]

Originally posted by Roughrider:
There are alot of other good sources of information, but a couple quick answers.

If you're not shooting with some kind of shooting glove or tab, and an arm guard, get them immediately - you'll prevent a lot of pain and bad habits.   Get the string well into the first joint groove on your fingers, not on the finger tips.  3 fingers under works great, as should your 7 1/2" brace height.  You may try anchoring with your middle finger at the corner of your mouth to bring the arrow up under your eye - a slight canting of the bow may help too - some like it, some not.  YOur arrows may be slightly stiff, might try heavy point weight, 150 - 250 grains and see how it works.

if you want to shoot instinctive, get feather fletched arrows, shoot off the shelf,  and get close to your target - 10 yards or less - to start out.  Concentrate on the middle of your target, not necessarily aiming with the tip of the arrow, pulling with your back, reaching and maintaining a solid anchor before release, and complete follow through on release.  Try to finish the shot with your hand behind your anchor point, not to the side or down, also, keep the bow up.  Shooting off the shelf brings the arrow close to your bow hand and makes "instinct" easier for many - kind of works with the anchor and 3 under as explained above.  Once you gain confidence and your form is consistent, then you can work on other things.

Otherwise, your draw weight and bow sound like a great start to me.  Try and find as mush information as you can, and an experienced trad shooter to shoot with.

I do need a glove or tab, I figure with all the shots I took today I am going to have to take a couple days off.  My fingers are very sore and one is blistered.  I do the middle finger in the corner of my mouth thing.  Didn't realize I can just turn the nock, but I learned that before I read this by just trying to twist (newb=duh!).  I am shooting off a rest because I don't want to deal with fletching my own arrows or buying arrows online, and I didn't see any feathered arrows at the local shop.  I am using a 125 grain field point and it seems to shoot well now that I figured out I can turn the nock.

In my deffense about the nock, I have never bought arrows.  The arrows for my wheelie bow came with it and I could see they are glued on.  I figured carbons were similar...  Who knew.

Also, for what it's worth, I did the measuring and math and the arrow is 13% FOC with the 125 grain field point.

I did manage to shoot a couple times (fingers are killing me now) after I turned the nock the right way and it flys great.  Now I need to work on my form and skill.

-Joseph

-Joseph

[Rob DiStefano]

without a doubt, you need to find a qualified local trad archery mentor.

[-Joseph]

I will have to talk to the guys at the local shop and find out when the trad shoots are.

-Joseph

[Uncle Buck]

you may want to check out these upcoming events this summer, you will get to meet a lot of archers and vendors and see a lot of different styles
june 26-27 Michigan trditional bowhunters jamboree in Grayling;
aug 13-15 Great Lakes longbow Invitational in Hastings MI

[Autumnarcher]

Joseph, first off welcome to the world of traditional archery. I read your post, and it reminded me of when I first started. Lots of help available here on TradGang, thats for sure.

Shooting a traditional bow has a learning curve to it, sometimes it gets confusing when getting started.

Form must come before accuracy. Start out about 8-10 yds from your target. Work on each aspect of your form individually, and do not even worry about where you hit. In fact, dont even put a bullseye on the target. Start with drawing the bow using your back muscles and not your arms or shoulders. Then focus on a solid and consistent anchor. The areas to work on 1 at a time are those, along with grip/hand position, release and follow through.

A couple of media that helped me a lot were Jay Kidwells book Instictive Arhery Insights, and the 3 CD set of Masters of the Barebow. Great resources, along with Traditional Bowhunters Handbook, and G. Fred Asbells book Instictive Shooting.

In time you may find that you like some parts of one persons system of shooting, but other parts dont work for you. Experiment. Try different shooting styles. Split finger vs 3 under. Shooting off the shelf vs off a rest. Instinctive vs gap method of aiming.

Dont be in a hurry to hit bullseyes. It is natural to want to, and we are all guilty, but I promise you if you spend the time on a blank bag, the accuracy will come. Good luck to ya.

[-Joseph]

Thanks guys.  I deffinetly have to get some reading material to help clearly define how to achieve good form and what good form even is for that matter.  I am sure with time and practice and god willing some paitence, I will get the hang of it.  I am kinda at that point where I am just happy landing them on the target, but they don't always land there.  I am going to hopefully see if the local shop has a string for my other bow being that it is a lighter draw at around 30#.  I don't feel like I have a problem with 45# but others have suggested learning at a little lighter poundage.  Thanks again guys.

-Joseph

[Autumnarcher]

Joseph, sent you a PM.

[raideranch]

There are some good dvds that can really increase your knowledge in a short time.  I would try the Masters of the Barebow Series.  

 http://www.3riversarchery.com/Books+DVD%27s+Shooting+Masters+of+the+Barebow+Volumes+1%2C+2+%26+3++Save+%2415.00%21_c42_s33_p173_i7032-3_product.html