Dacron vs. Fastflight

[jsweka]

A thread over on the Bowyer's Bench form was asking about using dacron vs. fast flight on a selfbow.  I've only used dacron on all my bows (BBO and laminated glass) so I don't have any hands on experience with fast flight, but being a number crunching geek, I had to do some ciphering to compare the differences.

So let's assume you are shooting a 60# Hill style longbow at 10 gpp (600 grain arrow) with a 30 incch arrow and can expect roughly 110 fps + weight of the bow.  That's 170 fps.  Let's assume you gain 10 fps by switching from dacron to fast flight.  What does that difference mean on say a 20 yard shot?  Here's some math comparing the two.


Speed         170      180
Arrow length      30      30
Distance (ft)      60      60
seconds to target   0.353      0.333
momentum (lb*ft)/s   14.75      15.43

Difference in time to target = 0.0196    seconds

Gain (inches of arrow travel in 0.0196 seconds) = 0.0196*180*12 = 42.35 inches
Gain (in arrow lengths traveled 0.0196 second) = 42.35/30 = 1.41 arrow lengths

So by switching to fast flight my arrow gets to the 20 yard target 0.0196 seconds faster and the fastflight arrow beats out the dacron arrow by 1.41 arrow lengths.  I've also gained 0.86 (lb*ft)/s of momentum.

Hmmmm....not much a a difference.  Could you even notice it?

I'm not trying to argue that fastflight isn't worth it (there may be other advantages such as reducing hand shock or noise), just thought this was some food for thought.

[jsweka]

Sorry -  I guess my formating didn't work.  I tried to make the Speed, Arrow length, Distance, etc. line up in nice columns.  The first is for Dacron and the second is for Fastflight.

[James Wrenn]

Sometimes it is not all about the speed.The FF can make a shock bow feel much better.Some use it for that reason along with the extra durability of the stronger string.10FPS is very noticeable to most any shooter that shoots farther than 10 or 15 yds as well.

BTW..All my selfbows and bamboo backed bows get 6 or 8 strand d-97 strings.It makes them feel better and adds some zip to them.

[Mike Burch]

Good stuff!

Not a whole lot of difference. I use FF on my  longbow not for any performance, but for the way it "feels" and durability. On my bow, it's quieter and way less vibration.....and for some reason with my carbon arrows, I get more consistent arrow flight. Plus, the little bit of performance gain is free.

Mike

[Lee Robinson .]

So, you gained about 5-6% performance (10 fps) without losing anything except handshock. This is equal to about 5+# of draw weight.

It's a no-brainer to me just on feel alone. The extra performance is icing on the cake.

[LBR]

I don't use FF materials for the added performance.  I use them for the added durability, reduced shock, and reduced/stretch/creep.  That's why I don't care for tiny strings--you loose a lot of the things I use HMPE materials for to begin with.

[widow sax]

I got a bow with b50 on it. After shooting my bow with B50 on it I would never shoot b50 or dracon ever again. I hated the way the bow felt and it was alot noiser and slower. I was shooting a bow 5 lbs heaver then my other bow and it was slower with the same arrow. Dose not make sence to me to use something that doese not give you the most out of your bow for the lbs you are pulling.  Widow

[jsweka]

So it seems like the consensus for choosing fast flight over dacron is not so much for speed as it is for other qualities.  I've never noticed any handshock from my Hill style longbows when using dacron.  I do get annoyed always adjusting my brace height for while with a new string.  You guys got me thinking that maybe I will try fastflight for the durability and lack of stretch.

[Lee Robinson .]

If you shoot dynaflight for a while (several hundred arrows to get a feel for it), and then go back and try the dacron again...you will immediately go back to the dynaflight without ever looking back again.

[LBR]

So it seems like the consensus for choosing fast flight over dacron is not so much for speed as it is for other qualities.  

For most of us it is.  The speed gain is negligible, even with tiny strings.  There are many--much more effective--ways to pick up speed other than a string change.

[String Cutter]

I just like the feel of B50 better then fastflight. But each to his own i guess??

[Bjorn]

On most of my bows the modern string material works better for me. I dropped from 60# to 50# a couple of years ago and was able to shoot the same arrow; the performance gain is a definite bonus, and at no cost.

[Onehair]

How does your calculation change when you add the extra string silencers to make the FF bearable?

[LBR]

I don't need "extra" silencers.  A small set of cat whiskers works great.  A little tuning goes a long way.

Chad

[Lee Robinson .]

On a bow like a HH, you hardly need any siliencer with any type of string. On most recurves, dacron is quieter, but I have seen some longbows where ff and dynaflight were actually quieter as they took out excessive vibration of the bow limb.

I know of no-one that requires a bow to be any quieter than myself. I have no use for a noisy bow. That said, I have problems with noise on the bows I shoot with dynaflight97.

I have used wool, beaverballs, yarn, and in some cases just a few strands of bowsring material. Any of these will work on most any D type longbows and also the majority of r/d type longbows as well with dynaflight. Many recurves are also quiet, while many are not so quiet. I believe it has a lot to do with design and tiller. For some reason, I have been able to get recurves like the Saxon and Horne very quiet even with dynaflight. Then I have seen bows like Black Widow and Palmer recurves not quiet down to my desired lack of noise level with any type of string & string siliencer combo.

[Mocsin1]

On some bows I could tell a big difference in speed but the reason I only shoot FF is because I hate the shock you get with dacron. Theres a big difference in feel between the two types.

[archdoogie1]

I am under the opinion that all bows are not created equal as far as strings go especially fast flight. In some areas I have been reading guys are throwing  FF on any old thing. Example I have a circa 1968
Browning wasp recurve #55 56". I don't think I would put a FF on it.
I am under the impression its not built for it. Some thing about the tips not being reinforced enough. Am I wrong here? If I am wrong I might give it a try because some improvement could be called for here for sure. I like the B50 over the flemish it has more consistency.

[dragonheart]

I had a Martin Lynx recure that shot great for about 15 shots with FF.  Limbs blew up.  when they say not to use FF on the older bows, it is true.  At least that was my experience.

[JimB]

You are right archdoggie.Those bows weren't designed for FF as many are now.Some people take the chance and use FF anyway and some get away with it.It is always a risk.

When it comes to FF,I suspect most people use it more for its feel and sound rather than speed etc.

I doubt most FF vs dacron setups would give you a change of 10 fps.10 fps doesn't sound like much but I did some experiments with arrow weights and chronographing the speeds.Testing several bows in the 50-55# range,I had to reduce the arrow weight almost 100 grs to gain 10 fps.Most people will tell you that 10 fps isn't enough to worry about but if you go at it from a different angle and suggest adding 100 grs to their current arrow setup,it sounds like a big deal.10 fps is actually a pretty meaningful jump.

[Prairie Drifter]

On one bow I went to a 6 strand skinny string from a 12 strand dacron. I had to increase my arrow spine by 15 pounds. That is a huge preformance gain. For  me to equal that, I would have had to increase my draw weight by 7 pounds accounding to Stu'c calculator(ie; 44 to 51 lbs w/ same dacron string).