Won't be sleeping much tonight (update- did not find deer)

[House]

I don't want anyone to misinterpret the point I'm trying to get across.  I'm not saying there is a void, just saying it's possible to enter the chest cavity and not hit lungs and make a killing shot...I wouldn't be so adament about this if I didn't do and see it first hand.  Probably a fluke, but reality none the less.

Travis

[pitt98]

My buddy had the exact same thing happen on Saturday.  He hit a 6pt in perfect line, but high and go a full pass through.  Found no blood, and no deer.  He was using a compound.  
It happens to everyone, not just when using trad gear.  It's very disheartening, but the gear isn't to blame.
These deer are tough, he might make it.

[Hookeye]

House,

Lung tissue displacement and then blood vessel cut?

As for survivability.........many claim they have seen deer survive a high lung hit (did they later shoot the same deer in good health and examine for prior wound evidence?).

Many claim such survivability to be evidence of a void (but without proper autopsy I don't see how).

Can the lungs be knicked and such a wound heal?

Void (no lung hit) and lungs hit and repaired= two different things.

Just tossing it out there, without a body and a real autopsy (low light field evisceration observations aint it).

Got into it yrs ago on another trad forum, gun hit deal, medical guy made claims, poor data collection and bad assumptions.

Proved his claims unjustified (and boy did he get snippy).

Let the science tell you what happened, don't assume.

Without a body, one can only guess......and outside of such forums, probably ought to refrain from commentary.

I've heard enough "buckets of blood and no deer/void myth" stuff in the shops this year (same guys every year- you guys know the type..........big mouths, little brains........every shop has a couple such customers.....who hang around way too much  :(

[House]

Hookeye-

I'm not speaking for anyone else or about what anyone else saw, thinks, feels, or knows!  All I'm saying is what I personally saw and know to be true:  I shot a mule deer.  Arrow went in chest cavity, arrow went through chest cavity and through the offside slightly below the spine.  I couldn't find any evidence of lung tissue dammage whatsoever.  Yes I was in the field, not I didn't take the deer to an examining room.  Yes, I had very good light.  Is it possible there was something I didn't see...sure, but it had to be pretty darn small.  Can a deer recover from x or y, I don't know?

I'm not making any "claims".  I am just letting others know about an experience that I had with this sort of situation.  Thought maybe others could possibly benefit from someone else's experience.  Kinda thought thats what this site was all about.

No, I'm not a medical examiner, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.  :p  

That's all I got.  Good luck to all.

Travis

[Hookeye]

I didn't refute your experience.

I actually supported the possibility of your findings to be correct.

[darb]

Crotch Horn,
Sorry man, it is a horrible feeling as anyone who has experienced it knows.  If you are sure as you seem about your placement, don't totally give up. Go check the area for buzzards, and or crows in the air.  Walk ever expanding grids, its amazing how far one can go.  I have a friend that has spent weeks before finding one on a bad shot. Meats obviously shot, but it put closure on it for him.

I have had it happen to me only with compound gear.  High angle, appeared to hit high shoulder and never recovered it.  Went back for weeks, with no success, still haunted by that one.  

As far as the void/ lung placement issue, here is the fact of the matter obvious to anyone who has gutted a deer and has any experience with anatomy/physiology.  If indeed you puncture the thoracic cavity (aka anything anterior of the diaphram when you field dress a deer) you have created a tension pnuemothorax which = dead deer, period.

My experience has been that people "think" they see the shot placement but it is either not correct, or the angle or bone deflection caused the arrow to not actually penetrate the thoracic cavity.  If indeed the thoracic cavity is punctured, the deer will not recover. I know that is not much solace to you however when you can't find your deer. Best of luck-

[steadman]

Sorry to hear this. I was hoping you had a better outcome (as we all were). Try not to get too down. Take care, and go get 'em again!

[House]

Sometimes the typed word can be hard to interpret, I apologize for the rant.  Good luck to you Hookeye and to the rest of you!

Travis

[Hookeye]

I wonder if the lungs were in some degree of exhale and if so, if that allowed for the arrow to push them aside rather than cut them.

Hitting a "void" vs creating a kinda sorta one.

That kinda thing.

No doubt somebody somewhere will read what you wrote and declare that proof of a void (their lack of reading comprehension then fueling spin).

[House]

Certainly possible, and I certainly wasn't attempting to prove, or give fuel to, the "void existed" folks.  Just an observation I made that very much surprized me.

Travis

[Hookeye]

Losing an animal sucks, but on the plus side........nothing in nature is wasted.

IMHO misplaced arrows and bullets can be more humane than other "natural" processes of demise (parasites, other injury, starvation).

I'm not saying shrug it off, am saying don't take it too hard.

[Bowwild]

I got lucky and killed a very large white-tail back in 1981. I say lucky because I had only seen the buck once and he came by the stand at only 7 yards the next time I hunted the stand --3 days later.

However, that big buck made me a "trophy hunter" for the next couple of years. I kept a diary and averaged hunting 63 days each of those years and passed up 110 bow-range opportunities including several PY-class deer. I didn't shoot an arrow during those 2 years.  

My point is something I learned about bowhunting and what it means to me.  I became numb to seeing deer, I wasn't excited about hunting, and hunting was feeling like a job. I realized that I was feeling this way because I didn't expect to get a shot because my standards were too high.  I realized if no shot is to be taken I didn't get nervous or anxious because I knew the risk that I might mess up (miss or worse, wound a deer) was almost non-existant.  Part of what makes hunting such a deep experience for me is  the possibility that everything might not work out - there are no guarantees.  

What happened to you is crummy and it happens to nearly every bowhunter eventually. This kind of thing reminds us that few things in hunting are slam dunks and that bad things can happen. It makes us appreciate those many more times when everything does work out the way we want them to.

[crotch horn]

Guys, thanks for the support. I know I killed the deer. Saw the arrow clearly while deer was running away. I will take the option of 1% survival to make me feel better. I know it is not the gear to blame but me the shooter. That is why it is hunting. As to a void or not, read deer & deer hunting and the facts speak for themselves. Is it possable to hit a deer and not hit vitals? Yes, if above the spine like stated or if your BH doesn't cut but pushes through.
We searched & did so hard. Crossed a stream up to our armpits here in upstate NY. Cold doesn't describe it. Will be back at it next week. I asked the farmer to ask the other farmers in the area to be on the lookout for him & if found I would like the rack. It looked like about a 100' buck which is big for our area.