Maple Arrows...Questions

[thewal2]

Hello,

I am semi new to shooting a bow and hunting in general.  This is my second full season hunting with a recurve and third year hunting at all.  I have harvested 3 deer with my bow.  1 last year and 2 this year.

I shoot a bear recurve 55# with cedar arrows (3 rivers hunter arrows) with 125 grain 2 blade broadheads.

I was told by some guys (who have shot traditional equipment for a long time, maybe over 40 years in one case) on a hunt a few weeks ago to shoot as heavy of an arrow as I can and they suggested shooting a hardwood arrow instead of cedar arrows to get some extra weight and maybe upgrade to 145 heads as well.  

So I did some research and I think I would like to shoot maple arrows, but I have some questions for you guys.

1)  who makes a good maple arrow and do they have a web site?
2)  Will swithching to a maple arrow give me the added weight I am looking for?
3)  By Switching to the maple arrows alone will I increase my force at impact?
4)  Does anyone make bright pink feathers for fletchings? (want to make arrows easy to find in the woods)
4)  Long question:  So I had an idea to help me out on my arrow.  I would like to place 6 inches of pink, orange, or yellow paint on the arrow 8 inches above my broadhead.  I have in 2 situations questioned the amount of penetration I saw on the deer as it ran away.  I think having the paint will help me decifer the information quickly as the deer runs away.  The paint would also help me find my arrow if it gets broken off from the fletching (happened once to me so far, and looking for an arrow with no fletching becomes looking for a stick in a forest of sticks)  So my questions about this are:
a)  Will the paint affect arrow flight?
b)  do you think a custome arrow guy will paint this area on the shaft of the arrow?

Thanks for your help guys...as you know Cabelas and other sporting goods places look at me like I am speaking french when I ask them about traditional stuff.

[bigbadjon]

I know maple arrow shafts do exist and it will indeed be heavier than a cedar shaft. Force of impact does not exist in an arrow put it out of your mind. Will it increase penetration? Yes, for as long as your velocity holds. A cap dip adds less than 10 grains so it would not effect an arrow. I do full dips of some arrows for maximum visibility. If the arrows a maker does are truly custom he/she will do whatever you ask.

[thewal2]

Yeah I guess what I meant by force really meant penetration.

[bigbadjon]

Also a consideration for going with alternate arrow woods. No other wood will stay straight like POC. The only other shafts that came close in that regard are sitka spruce (the best substitute imo) and douglas fir. Personally I would stick with one of those 3 woods and use a heavier point and up the spine slightly on the arrows.

[Fletcher]

Maple is one of the heavier woods being made into arrow shafts.  Dink's Feather Shop and Allegheny Mtn Arrow Woods will likely have it.  Like most all the hardwoods, it is pretty heavy and can have straightness issues.  Ash, hickory, birch and laminated birch are other heavy options.  What shafts are your buddies shooting?

Arrow flight is the number one factor in penetration and trumps everything else, so make sure you have perfect flight no matter what arrow material you choose.  Get your arrow weight up to 550 to 650 grains (10-12 grains per pound of bow weight) and you will have plenty of oomph and still have a reasonable trajectory.  Doug Fir will get you there nicely and makes a much better shooting arrow, IMO.  Upping point weight and FOC will help as long as the arrow is tuned for it.

Point end cresting and/or dips are very doable and won't affect flight.  Pink feathers are readily available and rather popular.  

 
 

[Patrick55]

For what it is worth, if the POC is shooting well then why change? You put three Deer on the ground???? What is wrong with what you have? At the distance most Trad. Hunters shoot it does not make that much difference in arrow weight (to a point of course).  Paint does not make a noticeable difference. I just dipped crested and sealed 4 dozen POC shafts and 3 dozen CE Heritage shafts. The before and after weight was less than 9 grains. That is with 2 coats of white Gasket Lacquer, cresting and a seal coat of clear over the cresting to protect it.  It is always good to listen to the old pros but take care not to get carried away. What works for one may not work for another.
Pink feathers are very popular. I do them up all the time. Just sent 2 dozen to OK last week. Similar to the beautiful ones from the Feathered Shaft in the pic. Really nice work.

[thewal2]

Well,  I do think what I am shooting is shooting well and I have been very accurate with it too.

The friday after thanksgiving I was hunting at my uncles farm and shot at a big big buck that was quartering away from me.  I hit him and my arrow broke or when I hit him he spun so fast it looked like that but anyway my arrow broke just below the fletching and when tumbling away...I actually thought I clean missed and my arrow bounced off something not realizing it was just the flecthing part of the arrow.  anyway I saw what looked like a stick sticking out of where I was aiming at from the deer after he spun around.  He didnt act like he was hit or anything.  There were 4 other mature bucks in the area too and I think he thought one of them attacked him...anyway he never acted like he was hit.  He was a huge deer!!!! I have never seen a body of a deer so big...he was atipical with a club looking thing off one side and a mangled broken off looking thing on the other side...not much to look at but a true trophy for someone as inexperienced as me.  He was a true big boy from illinois that you hear about!

It was pitch black when I got down and could not find my arrow or sign that I hit the deer so I left the woods...The next morning I hunted till 10 then went and looked for my arrow.  I found the back of the arrow and then retraced what the buck had done.  I then found my arrow shaft with 1 to 2 inches of penetration showing on it...Again I say the buck never acted hit!  We found a blood trail and tracked it 100 to 150 yards before it dried up.

I am guessing I hit the shoulder blade.  That stick I saw was my arrow shaft sticking out of the deer.  I wonder if a heavier arrow would have broke through the bone or if the a heavier arrow would have killed this deer.  I am a bass fisherman and a musky fisherman that often fishes in tournaments.  When something goes wrong while fishing I try and figure out what it was that caused it and fix it or replace it.  

My arrows currently work great on good to perfect shots, but what about when I push the shot forward an inch or 2 and hit a bone...Can i get a more powerful hit with a heavier arrow and would it have dropped this deer.

Again I say he acted like he was not hit other then the initial spin which I first thought was a jumping of the string type of move.  I know others have spined deer on not great shots, will my current set up do that or just hit and not penetrate?

[thewal2]

Oh yeah the shot I described was a high angle shot...about ten yards from the tree and I was shooting from about ten yards up so I called it a 15 yard shot...If I pushed the shot forward and a little bit high I would easily hit the shoulder blade.  I was shooting behind the tree I was in for the shot...a shot I can make but who knows with all that was going on...Bucks were everywhere around me...it was a crazy 15 to twenty minutes of hunting...it was awesome except for the loss of the deer...I would have rather clean missed!

Deer #1 and Deer #2 for me this year were also shot from that high in a tree...I like getting high when I am in thick timber and cant shoot far from the tree i am in.

[Patrick55]

I would think that case would be a shot placement issue. It happens to all of us at one time or another. It would be possible I guess that a heaver arrow would have penetrated a bit deeper. No way of knowing for sure.  No idea as to why the arrow would break at the fletching unless it was cracked before you shot or when startled the deer smacked it against something you could not see. That is a heart breaker for sure. It sounds like the deer will be OK. Go get your redemption next year.  The guys on this form are pretty sharp. If there is a better shaft out there I am sure they will come up with it.  Good luck.

[bigbadjon]

My deer failed to achieve a complete pass through this Oct on a quartering away shot. Using a Simmons the blade bent on the shoulder blade. I took out some serious vitals and even though it did'nt pass through it still died quickly and was easy to find. I believe your arrows to be sufficient. The problem may have been your shot. Think about whether you may have drew short out of exctiment or bending your arm. You may have also missed his vitals. An arrow that bites that deep and hits the good still bleeds out quickly internally, so it should'nt have went far.

[thewal2]

I agree it was a shot placement problem...If I didnt hit the bone or what ever I hit it would have been a dead deer.

One or two inches back and maybe a little lower and i think it was a dead deer.

Like I said I am not blaming the equipment I just want to make sure I am shooting the best combo I can.

[Fletcher]

It is good that you are looking to evaluate and improve your setup.  Shoulder blades can be tough to get thru.  You would probably find the Ashby Reports very interesting.  Regular arrows and 125 gr heads have been killing things very well for many years, but they clearly can be improved upon.  Much can be done to optimize arrow performance and these improvements really come into play on marginal hits.

You might also consider lowering your stand.  The steeper the shot angle you have, the smaller and more protected the double lung hit becomes.  Too steep and a DL hit with an exit hole becomes almost impossible.

[thewal2]

Ok so do I need to get the shafts barreled or tapered or anything else?

I think I am going to go with POC but still want to get to fletchings and stuff paint that I want to help me see the arrow better next season.

So what should I be looking to buy...

Also if someone says they are dipping the boot of the arrow what is the boot?  The broadhead end?

The crown is the fleching end I know.

Tim

[Rob DiStefano]

pretty darned good - three seasons and three deer - sounds like yer gear is working just fine already.  

imo, the wood shaft genus don't matter as much as durability and straightness.  i use a nail footing jig to add 60-80 grains of up front weight, while strengthening the arrow behind the point.

[Zradix]

I've used ash.
They're heavy and really really tough.
They did need almost constant tweaking to keep straight though. Maybe just a bad batch..or 3 come to think of it....
The arrow itself weighed 500 grns...no tip.
I was using 190 tips for a 690grn finished arrow.
Flew ( fell )like a rainbow but packed a wallop.