what makes a setu pforgiving????

[Matt Green]

Have a bow that seems extra 'tempermental'. Any slight error on my part (i have plenty) results in noticable and inconsistent arrow flight. bow is a 60inche recurve, Am at 10gr/lb, 20%foc, 480gr arrow. Am wondering what factors ABOUT THE BOW/ARROW/GLOVE ETC (NOT the shooter) influence how forgiving a setup is.
my thougts are below - please add - thanks in advance.
matt Green
glove/tab - how smooth a release it allows
on teh bow -   brace ht, length of bow, shelf design
arrow - total arrow wt, foc, total fletching area, helical vs. non-helical,

[PEARL DRUMS]

This will go in alot of directions. For me? Its a longer bow, cut beyond center, wide limbs, positive hand placement, long working limbs, short riser and heavy arrows with BIG feathers. All that being said my 62" Fatal Styk is the easiest shooting bow I have ever owned, you can sneeze at release and still hit the bull. It captures all the things I feel are part of a forgiving bow.

[Matt Green]

others have mentioned the spine of arrows being on the edge of too stiff/weak which makes sense. i agree on the heavy arrows, big feathers, longer bow. One person suggested there just seem to be bows which are more finicky - hard to get along with than others. I shot a robertson the other day - it was a freinds and the wt was beyond my comfort zone so it was hard for me to tell.
hopefully others have input.
matt G

[Matt Green]

To add: there's a poll on the pow wow - re: stability of 4x4inch vs. 3x 5inche. Currenlty results show 2/3 of tradgangers believe 4x4 offers better stability 1/3 believe 3x5
mg

[straitera]

HH said shorter recurves were way too sensitive to shoot consistently well. Sensitive in that their limbs recover faster, torque & twist more, longer string pull creates more finger pinch (& its release probs), etc. But, he was larger & stronger than most. Bet you couldn't sell that to Paul Schafer. Just find one you like. Try a longer bow at a shoot sometime. BTW, I have more trouble shooting lighter weight bows. PM for more.

[highpoint forge]

Matt, What is the weight of the bow? 60" is not short. First get the arrows dialed in for that bow using the Stu Miller DS Calculator, and then fine tune them and your brace height. What are your arrows doing in flight? Nock right, left, up, down?

I personally quit shooting with a glove, picked up a tab again, RELAXED my grip and and my shooting/release was way better. I don't get into the design factors(geometry or center cut) beyond length. A longer bow is more forgiving of form errors.

After you have the bow properly set up, you should try close bale and blind bale shooting to build a consistent draw-anchor-release without a concern of hitting a bullseye each time, and THEN start practicing for accuracy.

Form  (release and relaxation of grip and bow arm) is the #1 factor if you ask many people.

Check out the Masters of the Barebow Series with Lary Yien and Rod Jenkins.....great instructions there. Don't start worrying about super fine tuning equipment until you know your form is solid.

Check the shooter's forum for further info.....we all struggle with this.

[highpoint forge]

Hey Buddy what's up? Happy holidays man!

[straitera]

Much obliged Alex. Merry Christmas back at you? Do any good in Tyler? Let me know when you come back down.

BTW, Alex is dead nuts right at forgetting the bullseye until you get situated with a positive reinforced draw/set position.

[xtrema312]

a 60" curve should have decent forgiveness if cut to or past center.  I would think your arrow tune is off.  I know I have had bows tuned so they shot great until I made a little change and then it was all off and hard to figure out. Most times it was a tune issue that when fixted required a change in the arrow.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Matt Green:
Have a bow that seems extra 'tempermental'. Any slight error on my part (i have plenty) results in noticable and inconsistent arrow flight. bow is a 60inche recurve, Am at 10gr/lb, 20%foc, 480gr arrow. Am wondering what factors ABOUT THE BOW/ARROW/GLOVE ETC (NOT the shooter) influence how forgiving a setup is.
my thougts are below - please add - thanks in advance.
matt Green
glove/tab - how smooth a release it allows
on teh bow -   brace ht, length of bow, shelf design
arrow - total arrow wt, foc, total fletching area, helical vs. non-helical,

sometimes archers, bows and arrows are a match made in heaven ... sometimes not.  who hasn't been in the later category.  it happens.  

for the most part, you need to figure out what works best for you, not me, or those other folks.  it can be a trying, time consuming and expensive row to hoe, for sure.  

for the most part, it comes down to bow design, bow dimensions (with regards to draw length), materials and craftsmanship.  not to forget a proper arrow of proper weight, and a well made string.  then add in your form and archery experience.

no wonder the classifieds are so busy.

with regards to your list of culprits, imo it's you and the bow, not all the other stuff.  some bows are just touchy enuf that yer form needs to be that good or accuracy suffers.  some archers can make any kinda bow work, some can't.  i find bows with shorter and wider working limbs to be both faster and more "touchy" than longer and narrower limbed bows.  

in a fairly recent tbm, fred asbell wrote an article on the case for case for longer limbed stickbows.  i agree.

[jrbows]

In my own personal experience which is limited the fastest bow I have is the least forgiving (55# Super Diablo)I need to be really conscious of my form and release when I shoot it but if I do my part it hits really hard and gets there in a hurry,what I found was I could group but not on target,started analyzing my form and release and did some tweaking and got on target,it's still not one I can pick up and go directly in the woods with but it does make me more disciplined in my shooting style and I know I have to work to be consistent with it so it's a motivator also which I sometimes need I'm sure someone a lot more knowledgeable will chime in,hope things work out.

[Looper]

The most accurate bow for me was a 68" Adcock non-acs takedown.  It had a really heavy gaboon ebony riser.  I think the mass made it easier to shoot.  It was pretty speedy, too, even with 700 grain arrows.  Unfortunately it needs a new set of limbs.

Once I learned how to shoot it, my 69" Hill Halfbreed is pretty forgiving. My first try ever on aerial shooting I was nailing water bottles and tennis balls tossed by my wife.  I shot a dove on the wing with it earlier this year.  That was really more luck than anything, though.  I just happened to pick the right spot and the dove flew into it.

[Sixby]

I agree with Rob. The problem you are having is generally a combination of the bow and the shooter. A poor or inconsistant release, Creeping , flinching ect added to even a slightly unstable limb design or a poor fitting grip or a combination of those types of things can be a real problem.   Does this bow have a high wrist grip and your other bows a medium or low grip or possibly vice versa? .

God Bless and Merry Christmas, Steve

I like a set up where even if my release is a little short or one fingered it does not throw the arrow off to much.  Sometimes it is the bow and more often it is the arrow selection.  With hill style longbows a lighter spine is less sensitive to weak releases while still holding performance with a good release.  I stay away from arrows that only fly good when they are shot absolutely perfectly, other than backyard target arrows.  I have a 52 inch recurve that shoots great when I do and longbows that shoot great even when I don't.

[684Kevin]

Bow grip shape and how it fits my shooting style makes a big difference.  Two identical bows with different grips can make all the difference.  Most likely the grip doesnt fit my hand and/or shooting style if while shooting a bow I have to make sure my gripping of the bow is same each time I take a shot.  It took me trying out many different bows and grip styles before getting one that fits me to a tee.    Brace height, a longer one, will also make the shot more forgiving.

[Matt Green]

advice from a fellow shooter was to check the center shot and also ensure the arrow was resting on teh pivot pt. I made these adjustments late last night. Shot this morning and wow what a difference. Will bare shaft some later today. I shot this bow with my other bow some yesterday to check form - based on this semi scientific approach, the problem was as identifed above. With my other bow i get consistent flight. Hopefuly now this new rig will be same.
mg

[KentuckyTJ]

I think it is much more than arrow spine. I have one bow that I can hold and release almost anyway and it will shoot a perfect arrow. It will do this with three different spined arrows also. Bow design I believe is the major factor.