Pheasants + Dogs

[term]

Going on a bird hunt in a few weeks. I have never bow hunted over my dogs and want some ideas on what head to use. In the past I shot 160 snuffers and was happy with the results My concern is a dog getting a hold of a broadhead.I though about dulling the blades but you folks may have a better though. Any help or thoughts would be great. TERM

[wollelybugger]

I'm glad you asked that question, I have a wire haired pointer and am scared of the same thing.

[7 Lakes]

When the dog is running forward with your bird and the nock end sticks out front (as it sometimes will) it snags on everything forcing the broad head back toward the dog.  If the nock end grounds ahead of the dog it becomes a grounded spear. Much like those used used to break calvary charges.  The dog will impale himself, he will have no sense of danger while racing back to Daddy.  

Do not use anything really pointy or sharp.

[Tree Rat]

Always used std blunts when hunting over dogs.

You do have to be careful with misses sticking out of the ground (like mentioned above)

Never had an issue with retrieves, ususally because we were right there as fast as the dog. (you get a little excited knocking birds out of the the sky)

[reddogge]

Two solutions when using bows for pheasants.

1.  Leave Fido home.....OR
2.  Don't use anything with a sharp point.

I love dogs too much to see one injured, blinded,or killed retrieving your birds.

[Jeremy]

Standard blunts and fletching only IMO.
 

[TommyBoy]

Ace Hex Head Bunny Busters is all I use. It will cut a hole in them and bring them down quick.

[Walt Francis]

We use broadheads but put the pointers on a "Short" leash/rope before flushing the pheasants.

[oxnam]

I don't generally allow my dog to make retrieves on arrowed (arrow still in) birds regardless of point.  I have only had two birds that made it more than a very short distance.  So most of the the birds are close and I usually call my dogs off the retrieve.  

7 Lakes is spot on with his explanation, but there is still a significant danger with other heads like G5 SGH's or Judo points getting shoved back into the dogs mouth or face.  Always try and make your own retrieves if the arrow is still in the bird.  

The other option if you really need to shoot broadheads (some need to), is keep your dog on a check cord.  If you are running pointers, you can let them work normally but once the dog goes on point, a helper could move in and attach the check cord.  Depending on the cover, terrain, dogs, availablility of a helper, and birds, sometimes it can work out very well to use the check cord and other times it can be an absolute headache.  Every situation is different.

For slower or lightweight bows, blunts can be very poor options.  They simply don't have enough energy to deliver enough shock to the birds system.  On one hunt my wife was shooting a 35# @ 28" recurve drawn to about 24" and arrows were tipped with dull two blades.  She connected on a flushing pheasant in the backend.  The tip penentrated just far enough to wag a couple times and then fell out after a second.  The birds flew over the horizon with no sign of injury.  If the broadhead was sharp she would have likely brought that bird home.  Blunts will never be an effective option for her setup.  In those cases, you will just have to make sure you have control of your dogs through check cords and/or proven obedience or leave them home.

A 52 pound at 26" yew longbow with a 160 steel blunted cedar with standard fletch is very effective. With very hard spinning flu-flus the range is much reduced. For light bows and flu-flusI prefer the once made locally Hi Precission three blade broadheads that I get for free.  Sharp points and dogs do not mix.  The biggest problem I had was that my cocker spaniel thinks he needs to tear the feathers off my arrows.  This applies to the arrows in the pheasants or the ones that he finds when I missed.  He will bring both back. He runs with the arrows and he drags the arrowed pheasants until I get to him. The arrow hangs up most of the time. The dog i had earlier, a german shorthair, tended to break the arrows when they snagged, which left sharp splits of cedar to deal with.

[Bill Tell]

This is an excellent post.  I have two springers and have yet to hunt with them and the bow for fears as those above.

[excelpoint]

Simple, don't let the dog retrieve. The dog should be trained well enough in the first place to be both steady to flush and shot before heading out with either bow or gun.It's not hard to train a dog to be steady. There are just far too many things that can go wrong with any sort of arrow hanging out of a bird that is being retrieved. It may not happen the first time or the 99th time but it can and will happen. No dog is worth ever risking that.

If you really want your dog to have a retrieve wait till you remove the arrow then leave the bird where it lies. Take your dog back and send him for a retrieve, great way to train for blind retrieves or you could take his favourite retrieving dummy.

[term]

Thanks for your help,gives me a lot to think about. TERM

[TommyBoy]

Excelpoint, I understand what you're saying, but I don't want my dogs to be steady after the shot. Where I hunt, the pheasants are tough and can run quickly - even after a shot that looks perfect.  I want my dog in there as quick as possible to make sure and do a coupe de grace if necessary.

[oxnam]

Most of the time with a bow, the birds are on the ground within 20-25 yards.  I have not had a runner with an arrow it.  Now if you clip a wing or have a marginal hit and the arrow leaves the bird, it can be off to the races.  If that occurs it is safe for the dog and you can easily send or release them to make the retrieve.

[excelpoint]

Originally posted by TommyBoy:
Excelpoint, I understand what you're saying, but I don't want my dogs to be steady after the shot. Where I hunt, the pheasants are tough and can run quickly - even after a shot that looks perfect.  I want my dog in there as quick as possible to make sure and do a coupe de grace if necessary.

Tommy I have hunted a lot of pheasent, partridge and our Stubble Quail with my Shorthairs and other breeds, all of which have been steady to shot and flush. Being steady to shot or flush does not mean they cant retreive it just means they retreive on command when "YOU" want them too. Regardless of how hard your pheasants run it is still an unacceptable risk to have a dog retreiving with an arrow in the bird.

[Bill Tell]

Originally posted by excelpoint:
The dog should be trained well enough in the first place to be both steady to flush and shot before heading out with either bow or gun.It's not hard to train a dog to be steady.

For me it is very hard to train a dog to be steady to the flush.  I think I am going to go with a check cord.

[excelpoint]

Tommy, if you are interested shoot me an email at
[email protected] and I can give you some quick simple training drills using the check cord to get your dog steady. It can be done in the field or backyard.
Ive trained 2 dogs to National Field trial titles as well as others to Restricted and All Age Retrieving trial levels using the same techniques. They are simple short drills that work

[BowsnLabs]

I wouldn't recommend using anything remotely sharp with a dog on the retrieve...maybe not even an Ace Hex blunt.  I haven't bowhunted for pheasants, but I do a lot of pheasant hunting with a shotgun and retrievers.  With a 70-80 lb lab enthusiastically returning from a retrieve, it wouldn't be hard to run even a hex blunt into his body if the nock end catches the ground right.  

Case in point...my lab was running through some cattails and ran into a downed tree trunk that was covered up and ran a limb staub into his chest between his legs that lodged under the muscle along his ribcage and broke off.  Vet had to cut another hole in his side to get the end of the branch out.  He is fine but it made one heck of a mess at the time.

Just some food for thought...

[Mike Vines]

Ace Hex head blunts.