Incorrect poundage

[JamesV]

Lee.......

Do you measure your bows from the back of the bow or from the depest part of the grip?

James..................

[Lonala]

My new Bama Hunter on the money at 27" 64" bow at 53 #s Thanks Nate...

[wapitimike1]

Your lucky yours is low. I bought a new bow from a top bow maker. The bow came marked as ordered 54#s @ 27 but it was really 61-62#s. Messed my shooting up something awefull before I realized it wasn't just draw force. It was a newer design for me and I thought that was why it was so stiff. Needless to say I'm done with that bow maker for life!!!

[7 Lakes]

I went into a bow shop last week and watched the owner weigh a recurve.  He secured the bow with the string downward.  Hooked a 4 pound scale to the string and with a pulley hooked to the bottom hook of the scale pulled it to the 28" mark.  

He did not take into account the 4 pound weight of the scale or that the 28" mark was used for all bows.  

This man is a (un)professional that everyone in that county counts on to set up their bow.  After talking with him a bit I discovered he's convinced all the arrow charts are off 5#.

[Lee Robinson .]

Originally posted by 7 Lakes:
I went into a bow shop last week and watched the owner weigh a recurve.  He secured the bow with the string downward.  Hooked a 4 pound scale to the string and with a pulley hooked to the bottom hook of the scale pulled it to the 28" mark.  

He did not take into account the 4 pound weight of the scale or that the 28" mark was used for all bows.  

This man is a (un)professional that everyone in that county counts on to set up their bow.  After talking with him a bit I discovered he's convinced all the arrow charts are off 5#.

Mike,

"Adjusting" the weight for the mass weight of the scale or the mass weight of the bow is a common myth that a lot of professional bowyers get sucked into believing...but think about it. In the situation you described, when the guy hooked the scale onto the string, the scale's physical mass pulled on the bowstring did it not? If so, then that weight should be included (which it is) and therefore should NOT be adjusted for. In the above situation, the scale is "drawing" some weight. Don't get me wrong, getting sucked into this myth this does not mean that the bows made by bowyers that made this mistake are not good bows. Although those bows will be incorrectly marked in terms of pull weight, many of those bows may very well be excellent bows. It only means those bowyers fell into confusion from a VERY COMMON MYTH that one should subtract the weight of the scale (if the bow is on top) or the weight of the bow (if the scale is one top) from the pull weight reported...when in fact they should READ IT AS THE SCALE REPORTS IT.

Here is why...if the weight of the scale (or the weight of the bow if the scale is pulling upwards) is being supported/held by the bowstring, then it is flexing the limbs...and therefore it should be included. As long as the scale is calibrated, no adjustment should be made to the scale's reading. It sounds like that guy did it right...except for maybe the 28" mark thing. If he was using a block to hold the grip, the only variation he would have with that method would be variation in the depth of the grip/throat on the belly side of the bow to the backside of the bow...as throat depth varies from one design of bow to another (and to a lesser degree even grip size). Which is why draw length should be measured with a nocked measuring arrow when determining pull weight.

JamesV,

I use the same method that an archer uses to measure their draw length...and measure to the back of the bow on the outside of the arrow rest. I use a marked arrow to do that.

[Bowmania]

Protege,  Both bows were drawn to the same mark on the wall - 28 inches.  The reason the scale reads 40 or 70 is because the 40 pound bow has thinner wood in the limbs.  The string and the hook moved the same distance - it doesn't matter how much the spring in the scale moved.  A digital scale would read exactly the same. (???)

When I first read your statement I agreed with you, now I don't THINK I do.

[Lee Robinson .]

Originally posted by Bowmania:
Protege,  Both bows were drawn to the same mark on the wall - 28 inches.  The reason the scale reads 40 or 70 is because the 40 pound bow has thinner wood in the limbs.  The string and the hook moved the same distance - it doesn't matter how much the spring in the scale moved.  A digital scale would read exactly the same. (???)

When I first read your statement I agreed with you, now I don't THINK I do.

I haven't used digital bow scales. I don't know how much movement there is in the hook on such scales.

I was referring to spring scales.

When you pull a spring scale down to 70# (without a bow) the hook is further extended then if you pulled the scale to 40#. How much variation there is between the hook from the 40# mark to the 70# mark will depend upon which type of spring scale one is using. For illustration purposes, let's say for a given scale one has an inch difference in how far the hook is extended from a pull of 40# to a pull of 70#. If that is the case, then by using a mark on the wall...a 70# bow will be drawn an inch less than the 40#er...when "stretching" it down to a fixed 28" mark on a wall. That is why I use a measuring arrow. The nock of the arrove moves WITH the hook on the scale/bowstring and therefore does not require adjustment.

[Bowmania]

Protege, I figured it out and agree.  I thought of two weights exactly the same size, but weighting 40 and 70.  In order to weight them you would have to move them until they cleared the ground.  Because of the stretch in the spring the 70 pound weight would have moved further.

Thanks Lee,

Bowmania

[JamesV]

I am confused now, when I measure a bow with a spring scale I pull the string to the 28" mark(measured from the back of the bow). I don't see how the amount of spring travel would be a factor. Also I pull my scale attached to the string and laying on a flat surfice horizonaly, thus eleminating the weight of the scale from the equation. If you are pulling down on the string you are measuring the weight of the scale into the draw weight, thus a scale weighing 3# would make your actual draw weight off by the 3# on the light side. Because the 3# scale is hanging on the string, giving 3# of draw weight and reading zero. My thinking, all the bows measured this way without deducting the weight of the scale are flawed by the amout of the weight of the scale.

James.......................

[Lee Robinson .]

JamesV, it depends on how it is done. There are many ways to do it. When I have more time, I can come up with a photo to better illustrate what is hard to clarify in words.

When a 3# scale is hooked onto a string and is hanging by its weight, the scale shouldn't read zero. It should read whatever the scale weights. The only time a scale should read zero is when nothing is hooked onto it.

[BBWV]

Becareful where you get your Bow..I just purchased a new longbow..I had ordered a 50#@28" When it arrived it was marked 52#@28" This is a rep co and they check each bow before it's written on bow, and when I checked it it was 52#. They said if I wasn't happy with it they would make it right. I'm very happy with this new Bow and the bowyer and there service.

[David Mitchell]

Most bowyers want an allowance of +/- 2# which I think is reasonable.  Your bow is in that range.  Black Widow charges extra (or at least used to) for hitting an exact weight.

BBWV, where do you live?  I'm in Charleston.

[JamesV]

Lee............

I think you are correct, the scale hanging on the string should read it's own weight and not zero making your method correct.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Are you shooting at Yazoo City saturday, would love to meet you and shoot one of your bows.

James................

[Lee Robinson .]

I was hoping to make it to the shoot, but I have 2 bows I have to finish up so I can ship them out on Monday. If I am lucky, I will be able to make it, but unfortunately probably not. I am CERTAINLY going to be attending future Yazoo shoots (Yazoo is probably my favorite club) and I am also hoping to go to Tanneyhill at the end of the month.

[kbaamigo]

I do know Chastain's Wapitis are as marked. He uses brass weights on his.

[bear1336]

Any one have any Bear T/D limbs weigh a couple of pounds heavier than marked ?

[Orion]

James: If you hang a scale hook on a bow string, the scale should not read 0, it should read the weight of the scale, because that's the amount of weight that's already pulling on the string.  As protege has already explained.  You do not adjust for the weight of the scale in the calculation.  It's weight is already accounted for.