Moving and penetration?

[Robert Honaker]

Another thread on here got me to thinkin'.  That may be a bad thing.  :confused:  

Here goes. Hope this come out right.

Standing broadside deer at 20yd vs. walking broadside deer at 20yd.....which arra outta the same bow penetrates the best?

Now this aint a ethics ?  I'm not shooting at a moving target at 20 yd most of the time...eeeek!  I said most of the time.    Depends.

Anyway...IMHO  I  think a moving target steals a ton of momentum from an arra.  Seen the diiference on hogs and deer from 6yd to 20yd, from standing and moving.  I truly believe a moving target will reduce penetration alot compared to a stationary target at the same distance.

What say you?

[Skipmaster1]

The moving target will rob more energy for sure. The deer moving as the arrow enters is kinda has the same effect of shooting an un tuned arrow

[overbo]

Most of the time a deer reacts SO QUICKLY as soon as the tip of the broadhead touches one hair,he's going to move before the arrow gets all the way thru him.
I'm not buying the untune theory above.I've shot deer and elk at 30+ yrds while they were trotting and my arro penetrated to the opposite side.I killed a whitetail buck this yr on a dead run at 20+ yrds and the arro went completely thru him,w/ a 160 Snuffer.

[cyred4d]

In my opinion it still depends on where you hit them more than if they are moving or not.

[straitera]

Seen similar Obo. IMHO, a razor sharp BH w/sufficient momentum (?) kills best moving or not. But, I'd also take the best shot op w/highest kill % under the circumstances that you the hunter can expect or manufacture. i.e. whistle to stop a deer; or, wait for a quartering shot, etc. Yes I've killed fast moving deer & other w/broadside shots (complete passthroughs). Good question RH.

[Shane H]

I've noticed a difference on moving hogs, at least quartering away and moving away. Much less penetration than standing or moving braodside.

[Stumpkiller]

You're also passing through muscles that are in the process of expanding and contracting and that will put side stresses on the head and shaft.  May or may not be significant.  The heart's a moving muscle, as is the diaphragm.

Another good reason to shoot sharp heads on relatively heavy shafts.

If it comes down to eating a deer that was walking or watching a deer walk past I know where I'd vote.  That's why I shoot instinctively.  If they all stood like 3-D targets at known distances I'd use sights.  

A thought: is a relaxed and moving deer which has momentum and is committed to one direction able to "string jump" as much as an alert and  motionless deer which must overcome inertia to twist, duck or jerk at the sound of the shot?  Arrows are still much slower than tha speed of sound.

[Knapper]

I have never seen a difference when all factors were considered.  I have to agree that a deer's reaction is so quick that they are actually moving upon penetration as most of the time they are reacting from the sound before the arrow gets there.  Have you ever had a deer duck an arrow?

[Crash]

Stumpkiller, I've heard a hypothesis that a slowly walking deer reacts less to the sound of the shot, not sure if it's because they can't hear it as well while walking or it takes longer for them to change directions.  I shot a smallish rutting buck this year that came in trotting, stopped and started to take off just as I dropped the string.  Hit him back a little, still chest, liver and one lung, but still blew all the way thru him, 46 pound bow, 600 grain arrow, same results as 3 previous deer with the same set-up that weren't moving.  

I think there are more factors involved in penetration than we normally think about, heck, I normally don't think much at all.  I tune a bow so the arrow flys well, shoot a dang heavy arrow for the poundage, sharpen the broadhead, and aim for the chest.  Has worked well for me and it doesn't even hurt my head because I don't really think about anything related to math or physics.

[Stumpkiller]

It's a good discussion topic because there is no way to prove or demonstrate two identical situations with only that variable.

I have had deer just explode into movement when I released.  Hooves blowing out leaves and dirt and the deer changing directions.  Happily I can't say if it was reacting to the noise, the impact, or both.  I have never had a deer avoid an arrow.  Usually I can blame myself without hesitation when the arrow is an inch over their back.  

Squirrel - I swear on more than one occasion I have had pine squirrel move to avoid an arrow like whatzizface in the Matrix.  I would NEVER try to outdraw a deer looking at me even if I had the bow up and the arrow level - but that's mostly for fear they would see me move.  In those cases I wait until it does begin moving.  And not just the

[joe skipp]

Heavier arrows are quieter but too heavy a shaft will take away some of the bows efficiency. Stay within the parameters of 8 gpp minimum and 10 max.
It still boils down to making an accurate shot into the vitals with a razor sharp broadhead.

[oxnam]

I absolutely agree that on a moving deer, an arrow will not penetrate as well.  UNLESS the deer is running straight toward you and you shoot them in the chest.     Then you should get a little better penetration.

The moving deer could be that the deer is crossing in front of you or dropping at the shot, both situations will result in reduced penetration.

[SlowBowke]

No offense to anyone.

With anything close to standard equipment the MAIN point is that in either case, with the same hit.....the point is moot, at least to me.

I've done and do both.....all of em die. Penetration adequate. Done deal.

Even with two identical situations you wont get exactly the same penetration....but you will get enough, if arrow flight is good and the broadhead is sharp and a better built style.

Poor penetration results indicate other factors jumped in .....not that the deer was moving.

God Bless

[LKH]

Wish I could remember who, but review of video on bowkills revealed that way over half the deer are moving on arrival of the arrow. Mostly downward, but moving.

It doesn't seem to matter that much. You hit the ribs and the arrow is going through.

[Ragnarok Forge]

If you look into the studies, deer and most other wild animals actually have brains that process stimuli faster than a human brain does.  Squirrels in particular process images and sounds from their eyes and other senses far faster than humans.  Squirrels can definately dodge an arrow and we have all seen deer either try or succeed at dodging arrows.  

I have to agree that most deer are moving or getting ready to move when actually hit.  If their muscles are moving simply by the laws of physics the penetration will be less due to increased friction on the shaft and head of your arrow.  How much, I have no clue, and no way to definatively measure that due to the high number of variables.

Either way shoot a properly tuned arrow of high enough weight and your deer is still dead.