Tuning choice, what would you do?

[Jeff Strubberg]

Ok.


First, don't try and watch your arrows flying.  That's a guaranteed way to screw up your shooting form and produce all kinds of weird results.  You need to either:

1.  Paper tune, WITH FLETCHINGS where you can look at the tear after the fact, or
2.  Use the point of impact method and bare shaft

Watching your arrow is not reliable.

Looking at arrow kick in the target is not reliable.

Paper tuning and point of impact tuning will get the job done, but you have to use them as written and not halfway.

[JimB]

Let me ask this and it may sound dumb but it has come up on one of these threads before,were you shooting on a breezy day?

[FrankM]

It wasn't windy. I did this over a few days. When I saw /  \\  /  \\  /  \\

I was like, wth!  Anyway, I took all my weights out, set my rest back to the beginning, and I am only going to do point of impact bareshaft tuning and leave them be. That should be at 549 grains. That's what I got before. I just find it real hard to ignore that little bit of right kick of the nock.

[FrankM]

Well, well, well. Found my notes which said last time I tuned 559 grains was it. So, I took all the weight out which made them 529 grains. Too much to the left out to 18 yards. Tried 549 grains. Better, but still slightly to the left and bareshaft groups well. Tried 559. Hits bullseye and groups with bareshaft. At no time did I experience bareshaft waggle. /  \\  /  \\  
Though, the bareshaft does fly nock right. But I don't care, they group at the bullseye. So, I confirmed my original test before I let the right nock bareshaft take me on a tangent.

I think I'll call myself tuned. Thanks guys!

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by FrankM:
Well, well, well. Found my notes which said last time I tuned 559 grains was it. So, I took all the weight out which made them 529 grains. Too much to the left out to 18 yards. Tried 549 grains. Better, but still slightly to the left and bareshaft groups well. Tried 559. Hits bullseye and groups with bareshaft. At no time did I experience bareshaft waggle. /  \\  /  \\  
Though, the bareshaft does fly nock right. But I don't care, they group at the bullseye. So, I confirmed my original test before I let the right nock bareshaft take me on a tangent.

I think I'll call myself tuned. Thanks guys!

imho, it's scary to think that 30 grains or so make that much difference.  it shouldn't.  but i guess in yer case, and as you see it, it has.  to each their own.

i think, like too many folks, yer over engineering this business of arrow selection.  if you could allow it to happen, you will probably find it's you (your form, your shooting) that's really the common denominator and not 30 grains of arrow mass.

[Night Wing]

In my opinion, bare shaft tuning is time consuming, frustrating which can lead to aggravation. Cutting off a 1/4" here, glue in the insert, shoot bare shaft, if not right, take the insert out, cut off another 1/4", repeat the process, etc, etc. If you cut the bare shaft too short, you start over. For me, bare shaft tuning was a "pain in my rear end" and I despised it for 45 years. Oh, and your arrow release using your fingers better be good that day.

During the last two years, I have tried many different arrow setups for both of my two recurves. My 37# recurve can shoot 2114s, 2212s and 2213s. All with different point weights and different brace height settings. My 42# recurve can shoot 2212s, 2213s, 2215s and 2117s. Again, all with different point weights and different brace heights. None of the arrow setups was done by bare shaft tuning.

When Stu Millers calculator program along, this was the cat's meow for me. It's like a virtual "what if" program where you can see how different length arrow sizes with different point weights should perform without having to buy the arrows.

I wanted to shoot a 32" aluminum arrow and no other length. Using his calculator program, I plugged in the arrow length along with the corresponding arrow sizes and different point weights and the rest of the correct info into the 14 boxes. His program always gets me close for a tunable arrow. When I found ones I liked, I shot a few arrows out of my bows and then fine tuned by raising or lowering the brace height. Simple, easy, effective and efficient.

With Stu's calculator program and it works very well for me, I haven't bare shafted for the last 2 years and with that said, I kicked the bare shaft tuning method.....to the curb. I'll never bare shaft tune again. The reason; the time it takes me to tune 4 arrows using Stu's program is equivalent to the same time it takes me to tune 1 arrow using bare shaft tuning. The results are the "same", but without any of the bare shaft hassle if you get my drift. My only lament, I wish Stu' program would have been around 47 years ago when I was 14 years old and started bowhunting.

[Steertalker]

In my opinion, bare shaft tuning is time consuming, frustrating which can lead to aggravation. Cutting off a 1/4" here, glue in the insert, shoot bare shaft, if not right, take the insert out, cut off another 1/4", repeat the process, etc, etc.

Don't know why it has to be that difficult.  Just trim from the nock end.  Yank the nock out, trim, stick the nock back in and shoot.  Using one arrow you should be able to bareshaft tune within an hour or less.  Once you get it shooting like you want add a few more shafts to verify the results.

Brett

[FrankM]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
i think, like too many folks, yer over engineering this business of arrow selection.  if you could allow it to happen, you will probably find it's you (your form, your shooting) that's really the common denominator and not 30 grains of arrow mass. [/QB]

You're probably right. Stu's Calc says these arrows should work for me at 529 grains. As my form improves, I may find that he's right. One thing I noticed, if I lower my bow weight in Stu's calc to get my "measured bow speed" then the 559 arrows are a match to my bow. So I wonder if 559 is the real arrow for me.

[Night Wing]

Originally posted by Steertalker:
 

QUOTE]Don't know why it has to be that difficult.  Just trim from the nock end.  Yank the nock out, trim, stick the nock back in and shoot.  Using one arrow you should be able to bareshaft tune within an hour or less.  Once you get it shooting like you want add a few more shafts to verify the results.

Brett

It's not that simple trimming from the nock end. My Eclipse X7 2212s and Camo Hunter aluminum arrows have metal uni bushings already installed by Easton. It's not wise to use a metal plier on the uni bushings to take them out. You'll damage them. If they get damaged, the arrow won't fly right. As an analogy; it's like gluing a nock on a swaged arrow crooked, not straight.

[Jeff Strubberg]

**shrug**

Since I only have to tune once to a particular bow, I don't think it's a big deal to take an hour and get things right.

If you get things flying to your satisfaction without spending that hour, more power to you.  Me, I want to know the equipment isn't the problem.  I can't concentrate on the shot if I don't know for sure what my setup is going to do.

[Steertalker]

Night Wing,

Not familiar with your arrow system but I do appreciate the fact that there are idiosyncrasies to each arrow type.  My bad for assuming that you were using something similar to what I use.

I agree with Jeff....I want to know that my bow and arrow combination are performing flawlessly so time spent tuning is important.  

Brett

[drphoto]

ive been having a similar problem with left right wiggle. I just upped my tip weight to175 from125 andit is greatly improved. If i draw a tiny bit over my natural draw they fly really well, so it is probably my form at fault, or i need an extra pounds or two draw weight. the strange thing i have noticed is that the points and broadheads group well at 15 metres and where i am aiming(3 inch groupings) , but from 25 metres they both group to the right of my aim, and it is consistent. I havent shot further than 25 meters to see if it gets worse. this has me pretty baffled any ideas?

[FrankM]

Have you seen these videos and critique's?

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=003820

[FrankM]

Originally posted by FrankM:
One thing I noticed, if I lower my bow weight in Stu's calc to get my "measured bow speed" then the 559 arrows are a match to my bow.

I asked Stu about it and he told me I could do this, or just insert a personal form factor until they spine the same.

But then! I borrowed some 3355's and they flew like lasers, I only saw the back of the feathers. I put my broadheads and field points on and they group together. WTH!  I swear guys, if I didn't like archery so much I'd quit.

[Eugene Slagle]

One thing I do when I tune a bow is tape a match stick on & concentrate on aiming the match stick at a spot, when I see the arrow do some funny things in flight my brain goes into overdrive trying to analyze it & make it better & usually just make things worse.
Also with knowing that I'm being as precise in my aiming point as I can & hopefully each shot is taken with my form at it's best I should get each arrow hitting the same location unless they are not tuned right.

I agree that Stu's calculator is a God send in getting our arrows close to our bows & our shooting as long as we punch in the right figures.

[overbo]

If one dosen't have consistant shooting form,then all this Stu's,paper,and bareshafting is for not.
Put a wide broadhead(like a 160 snuffer)on a  bareshaft.This will tell you ALOT about shooting form and tunning.
I like bareshaft because it tunes my form as well as the arro my to bow.

[arky714]

I started bareshafting to at least 30 yards,it shows if your on or off,20 yards is not enough to get arrows properly tuned,In 44 years of shooting, bareshafting is the best change I ever made...shows all your tuneing problems...

[Bill Carlsen]

I am a bare shaft tuner. Without getting into all the particulars the last thing I do when things seem to be OK is to shoot broadheads. If they shoot true the job is done. If they don't then I know I need to tweek things and that can become pesky especially if the bare shaft tuning seems perfect.  I have a new Stalker longbow that bare shafts very good but the broadheads are finicky. I hung the bow up until after I get the garden in then I will play with it til I get those broadheads shooting the way they should.