another cracked untuneable bow, the $2100 question

[AkDan]

Well, Found out tonight that my TSIII is a pain to tune, possibly untuneable for me anyways.  

Also found a crack after taking the rubber grip off. It's a TD, and the upper portion of the overlay on the back has cracked, started lifting, and ran into the glass beneath it.   Just shot Jim another email letting him know of it.

The million dollar question is how in sam heck do I get an arrow to stop kicking high and left?   Seems this bow really likes a hard heel down grip, even then it only helped some.  Still cant get the nock high tear out.

Got two more coming, would hate to have to cancel but hate spending this kind of money on bows I can't shoot!!!!

HELP!!!

[Mike Burch]

AkDan,

What's the specs.?

Try a stiffer arrow. I went through the same thing a while back and had to go to a stiffer arrow and a different brand of arrow.

If it doesn't work or gets worse, try a weaker arrow than what was used to begin with.

Mike

[AkDan]

Mike,

It's 66"es, dynaflight string 15 strand (changed from an 18 strand ff today).   Pulling 28 3/4 for DL, bow is 59@28, figure 61 at my draw, 125 grain points.  Shooting split fingered with a tab.

Have tried 65-70's 70-75's, 75-80's.   The two higher do OK and with some serious heel pressure they only show nock high.   With the way I normally shoot they show nock high and left, the 65-70's are high and left but worse (though I did get one to show straight high with a finger tip release which I cannot keep doing due to pain in the hand).

I've started with a np up well over 1" and gone so low as to get some major kick back.

Have the brace heigth up to 8 now.  In all reality the bow shoots OK, but does have a slight noticable kick in the air.   Makes me wonder if the string hand pain and the bad flight are connected?   I had this pain last fall too.  Didnt shoot much last winter (different bow waiting for this one to get done).   Got this one this summer and it shot good as far as I could tell, now I'm finally fine tuning it hoping to use it this spring for longbeards or pigs, or both, quite possibly in TX!

[Lewis Brookshire III]

Sounds like you need to get some stiffer arrows if its nock left. Once you get the left/right good then start playing with nock position to get the up/down right.

[john gerrard]

AK, If you are having pain in your string hand could it possibly be affecting your release? Also you mentioned that you hadn't shot much this winter. That could also be affecting your form. Believe me I have spent hour after hour trying to tune my bows only to find out that it was my release. The thing that helped me most was I have a 45# bow that I have to go to every so often to work on my form and after a couple days things get alot better. Just a thought. Brokenwing

[Jim/LI]

Archers paradox and oscillations of the arrow are supposed to occur.  Even with a perfectly tuned arrow, you will not have a perfect paper tear.  Consider using the bareshaft method for tuning.  If you are looking for a perfect tune, you may also need to give up the idea of shooting off the shelf.

[OkieJ]

My TSIII likes woodies 10#-15#s higher than the bow poundage and 1/2" NP with a brace of 7 1/4".
 I should add that it's 64 inches. It shoots best with palm down for me. I did have a problem when I first got it but found out it was me torquing the string.

[Randy Morin]

The one time I couldnt get a bow to paper tune well I finally discovered it was because the arrow was slipping down the string upon release.  I was getting 2-4 inch high tares depending on where I had nock set. Put on a lower nock set and cleared it up.  

I'm guessing this is not your problem but it's something to try.  

Also, it sounds like you know what you are doing but how far from the paper are you?  I have found 12-14 feet to be about right.  Any closer and you are pushing the envelope and asking for frustration.

[Peckerwood]

AkDan, one thing you might want to check out is raising your nock height. I have been fooling around with a bow that I could not get to quiet down. After trying different strings , brace heights , and string silencers I raised my nocking point over 5/8" . The higher nock setting bare shafts well and really helped to quiet the bow.
Bill

[Shaun]

Not sure what a TSIII is, but I have a BW TF one piece recurve that is 60@28 and requires a 100# spine wood arrow. You can find some 80 to 100+ spine shafts in your local hardware store (ramin) or try some carbon shafts.

[Steve H.]

If you left those arrows extra long that will effectively reduce thier spine as well.  I don't know if it the whole problem, but I would start at a heavier spine. Is there a chance you blew right on by the best np height?  I would revisit 5/8" high.

[Dave Lay]

I also think you need stiffer, I shoot a 58@27 PSAIII and need  28 inch 2216 and 175 gr point or a 80-85 wood with a 125 head..your set up probably would take alot stiffer arrow than mine

[AkDan]

Steve,

Spent quite a bit of time with my Bh, NP, and adjusting my silencers (before I twisted the string all the way up LOL).  

And you should know I draw every inch of that arrow back, to the point I could overdraw a BH if I aint careful!!!  Did it on my first ram, good thing I didnt get cut, heck if I did I sure as heck dont remember LOL!

I mentioned my hand hurting, well believe it or not after an hour and a half of pulling what little hair I have left last nite, my hand still feels fine!!!   I wonder if I aint torqing my string hand?   Kinda hard to see with my big fat head in the way eh lol.  If anything its the bottom finger that hurts the most, (note not blister, have had a 15 year callause on that finger built up ;D).  

Man heavier spined shafts, have 1200 or so shafts in my house and nothing over 80lbs of spine.   At 240 bucks a hundred, shew, I aint looking forward to it.   Guess I'll order a few test arrows if possible.  

Gonna try and give this bare shaft group testing a try but I have a good idear what it's going to tell me already.

[Shawn Leonard]

I will just say this the Widow do not require that stiff of spine, 15-20#s over the weight of the bow at your actual draw length. They are cut past center and do not shoot that much harder than a lot of bows out there. That said, an 80-85 should be plenty stiff for ya and since it the LB, which I just noticed that maybe stiff. I have never seen anyone that I shoot with have a good enough release to paper tune, The bareshaft, point of impact works, but paper tuning requires a perfect release!(Every time by the way)I have owned 5 Widow recurves and 2 longbows and I had no problem getting perfect flight out of them all. Shawn

[RC]

I also had the problem and it was caused by two things that I have since corrected.One I was twisting the string counterclockwise when I drew the bow.By pulling slightly more with the bottom two fingers and keeping the groves in the fingers parallel with the bow length wise I corrected this. Also on my Thunderstick I have to grip the bow more by the throat and not heal as much to get it to shoot well for me and shoot well it does.Your nock height should be consistent with your other bows.I do know tourqueing the bow will cause tail left arrow flight and a lot of the newer hybrid bows don`t shoot well being healed as more "trad" type longbows do.Hope this helps ,RC.

[AkDan]

holy crap, my hole last post didnt post!!! ugg

Interesting stuff RC,

This bow seemed to get better the harder I heeled it.  

Shawn,

I would have thought bareshaft tuning would show a flaw more so then paper tuning just due to the fact of no fletchings to help out at all.   THats the main reason I paper tune first, to get close, then bareshaft to fine tune.  And yes you can bareshaft and punch bullet holes, I have a bow (with a crack again ugg), to prove it can be done with a longbow at 6 yards through paper, fletched.  

I usually go about tuning in this manner.

Come down from a high NP instead of up.  Get the ups and downs out with the NP and then start working on lefts and rights using BH, silencer placement, and adding a pressure point to the shelf and sitewindow to minimize torque.  Once I'm close or got it, then move onto fine tuning using a bare shaft.  Have successfully bareshafted out to 30 yards and it even did OK at 40 though errors really started showing up on the extreme end at 40.   Needless to say this bow was a shooting machine! Both on the range and in the field.   Sure wish that bow could be duplicated!!!!!