Arrows vs sticks w/feathers

[Will Taylor]

My apologies gentlemen,for not posting in a while.Work and screwing off takes time.However I have been keeping up by reading the site quite frequently.Not sure if my skills have improved greatly.Mostly learning what questions to ask.So here goes my question;

If a bow draws 50# @ 28",my draw length is 25",and you lose aprox.3# per inch of draw weight,then I am pulling 41#'s,and you gain 5# per inch under 28"(arrow shaft).Adding feathers and points add spine.Am I correct in thinking,that to get a 40-45# spine,I would have to begin with a spine of 30-35? 30-35 + 10-15#'s of added spine(25"draw)= 40-45# spined arrow? Am I even close?

My knowledge of archery is solely based on what I read on the computer and books. Any advice will be taken to heart,thanks,Will.

[Aznboi3644]

I don't use a spine tester.  I have gotten a feel for arrows and can get pretty close with hand spining and testing them from the bow.  But I like to tune each arrow by cutting them down until they fly how i like.

I don't get too complicated with it.  I like simple.  Thats why I make wood bows.

[Will Taylor]

Forbid that I wish to complicate thing's,just makes it harder.But I need the inexperienced starting point.Meaning what arrow shafts to buy.

[Grey Taylor]

What kind of bow?

Guy

[Dan Landis]

Will, Points and fletch lessen spine not increase it in a sense.  I would purchase arrows spined in the 40 to 45 pound range and leave them a much longer than your draw length.  Shoot a few of them to determine where they group.  If they group consistently to the left, they are not spined heavy enough, cut a 1/2 inch off at a time until the group is centered where you want it.  If they group to the right, they are too stiff, add more point weight until they group where you want them to. That's how I do it, but there many others on this site that I'm sure have a better method to determine this....Dan

[William F. Adams]

We also need to know what sort of bow / how close to cut to center you are, what sort of string, point weight, &c.

A simple on-line spine calculator is here:

 http://www.bogenblog.de/index.php?/pages/spine-rechner.html

Or you may want to try the Easton calculator:

 http://www.eastonarchery.com/download/software

I've just used Stu Miller's Dynamic Spine Calculator:

 http://heilakka.com/stumiller/

and was very pleased w/ the results.

William

[Will Taylor]

No one bow inparticular.Recurves and longbows in general.

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Originally posted by Dan Landis:
Will, Points and fletch lessen spine not increase it in a sense.  I would purchase arrows spined in the 40 to 45 pound range and leave them a much longer than your draw length.  Shoot a few of them to determine where they group.  If they group consistently to the left, they are not spined heavy enough, cut a 1/2 inch off at a time until the group is centered where you want it.  If they group to the right, they are too stiff, add more point weight until they group where you want them to. That's how I do it, but there many others on this site that I'm sure have a better method to determine this....Dan

That depends on if your a left handed shooter or right handed shooter. Right handed shooter heavy spine will shoot to the left, weak spine will shoot right.
Left handed shooter heavy spine will shoot to the right, weaker spine will shoot to the left.

I'd suggest you start out with some 35/55 Gold Tip blems from Big Jim. That's a good, tough, shaft to use and the blems are cheaper than buying new. Big Jim will also sell you a half dozen so you don't blow a bunch of money on an entire dozen just to decide later on that they don't work for ya.
Leave them several inches longer than you need, experiment with the point weight to get em hitting center.
Best advice I can give.

If you were to shoot woodies you would need to make yourself a spine tester and learn all you can about arrow spine and how to tune those arrows to your bow. That's the only proper way to shoot woodies, you must know your spine and understand how it works. I built a spine tester for nearly zero dollars out of stuff I already had in my garage.
Here's a link to the plans for the spine testing jig that I built. It's extremely simple.
 http://marshal.ansteorra.org/archery/files/aob2003/spinetester.pdf

Here's a good read on bare shaft tuning.
  http://www.bowmaker.net/index2.htm  

I pulled this from the bare shafting section on Left/Right problems and the instructions are for a right handed shooter.

"If the majority of your bare shafts are grouping left of the majority of your fletched shafts, your arrows are too stiff. To correct this you have several options. The easiest is to increase point weight one step and try again."

Here's another good website on wood shafts and such, with very good info on how to chose, spine, fletch, and all that.
  http://www.stickbow.com/stickbow/arrowbuilding/

[Will Taylor]

The arrows are wood,and I do have a home made spine tester.

[Shaun]

The type of bow and type of shelf (arrow rest) are still critical information. A 50# self bow and a 50# glass recurve with shelf cut to or past center will take very different arrows.

[Art B]

Arrow spine is set at the bow's weight (41#) and not by how far you draw (25") it Will. Adjustments to spine do however move north and south of 28" (using a 125gr point) with wood arrows.

So, for example, if you want 40-45 spined arrows for you 25" draw length start with a finished arrow of 28" (BOP) using a 125gr point. Shorter than that, then lessen shaft spine 5# per inch to maintain 40-45#.

Point weights over 125gr lessens spine, and point weight under 125gr ups the spine.
Example, if you want a finished arrow of 27" 40-45#, shorten the arrow 1" and up the point weight to the next available weight which is 145 gr. But if you shorten that same arrow and still use the same 125gr point then in effect you've raised the spine from 40-45# to 45-50#. Hope that helps.
.....Art

[Will Taylor]

Art,you are on the money.This I understand,and it almost answer's my question.Thanks.Sorry too,if I was not clear.One thing remain's;do I spine for the bow's 50#'s or the 41#'s at my draw lenght?You touched on it,but I'm still a tad confused.

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Stu's calculator works wonders if you take the time to use it and your as accurate as possible with your input data. It was spot on for my CX Predators and I ended up with 190gr. up front in the form of 90gr. brass insert (100gr. reduced in dia.) and a 100gr. point. They fly like lazer beams as long as my release is good.

All I did was build the arrow that Stu's calculator told me I needed.

[Art B]

You want your arrow spined for your bow weight at your draw length Will. How long of an arrow you want to shoot? We're both shooting about the same weight bows here at about the same draw length. My sets of arrows are from 27-29" long for example. BUT, they are all spined the same.

Like I mentioned, wood shafts are measured for static spine at 28" even though they may be longer than that. That's assuming using a 125gr point. Change the point weight (125gr) and the length (28") and you change the dynamic spine......Art

[Orion]

With a moderate weight bow, i.e., 50#, you probably lose only 2 1/2# or less per inch of draw less than 28 inches.  Thus, at 25 inches, you're probably drawing 43# or a tad more.  

The dynamic spine changes as you shorten the arrow, but the static spine doesn't. The 5 pounds of spine you're subtracting for each inch of draw less than 28 inches should be subtracted from the 50# initial starting weight, not the 43# at your draw length.

Start with a static spine that's right for your draw weight at your draw length.  Unless you have a high performance bow, fast flite string, cut to or past center bow, shafts spined 40-45# should work nicely for you.

[Shawn Leonard]

Flecthing does not weaken spine it actually stiffens an arrow a tad bit. Cutting it down stiffens it quite a bit for every inch you take it down. Will what type of bow, make model and such. We can get ya darn close on what arrow you need to shoot from the bow, be it wood, carbon or aluminum. Shawn

[Will Taylor]

Thanks to all who help.I think I have a plan now.Should have ask before I messed up a dozen arrows,or at least I think I have.-Will