Bear TD, Is That OK ?

[kibok&ko]

i think more and more it's the way the riser is "open" and very thin on the overlay, the other riser you show are more "fat" on this place ... the alignement look good i'm going to make a pic like Yellow dog (thanks) to show to you

[Orion]

kibok:  You got me now.  I'm at a loss to explain it. The bow may not be center cut.  To determine if it is, measure the width of the riser up near where the latches begin.  The results should be the same on the top and bottom.  Then measure the thickness of the riser at the arrow shelf.  Since the strike plate is already there, you will have to incorporate it into the measurement, and measure it separately and subtract it from your result.  The result should be half of the riser width.  If it's more than half, it's cut proud of center by whatever amount it is more than half the riser width.  

If that's not the case, then misaligned limbs are the only remaining explanation that seems to work.  A picture taken as yellow dog suggests will show if that is the problem.  Looking forward to seeing it.

[kibok&ko]

Originally posted by Orion:
kibok:  You got me now.  I'm at a loss to explain it. The bow may not be center cut.  To determine if it is, measure the width of the riser up near where the latches begin.  The results should be the same on the top and bottom.  Then measure the thickness of the riser at the arrow shelf.  Since the strike plate is already there, you will have to incorporate it into the measurement, and measure it separately and subtract it from your result.  The result should be half of the riser width.  If it's more than half, it's cut proud of center by whatever amount it is more than half the riser width.  

If that's not the case, then misaligned limbs are the only remaining explanation that seems to work.  A picture taken as yellow dog suggests will show if that is the problem.  Looking forward to seeing it.

Thank you Orion, i'm going to try this ...


Nobody here with a 3R A riser with a A Handle from the 2002 + Years to compare with mine ?

It's probably the way they design it i think (hope) with a very thin overlay riser, i send a message to the 3R rivers customer service yesterday for MR Karch, i'm sure they can give to us information about this may be specific design & look !

[kibok&ko]

I just recieve a pic from one of this 3 Rivers A type of the years 2000 , seRiouSly wider than mine

look

 


strange !!! operator fantaisy or special type for mine ?

[Orion]

kibok:  Your riser definitely looks skinnier through the side plate/ arrow shelf area.  However, it would have to be the same width at the latches to accept the limbs, which are all standardized to the same width.  

A thinner riser, side to side, would not necessarily lead to the substantial offset you see with your arrow.  It would only if they didn't cut it to center to retain strength in the grip area.  However, it looks like they still cut your riser to center, thus the extreme thinness of the arrow plate portion of the riser.

You can lessen the offset a little by using thinner strike plate material, and moving it forward a little. Probably not necessary though because you said the bow was already shooting well for you.  It just takes a little less arrow spine for the greater offset angle so the arrow bends appropriately around the riser.

Would still be interested in seeing a picture like the one Yellow dog took to check for limb alignment.  A few years ago, I was going to buy one of the newer takedowns from a fella.  In examining it, I discovered it was a "narrow riser" version like yours.  Strung up, the string just didn't seem to line up properly on the riser.  The limbs didn't look twisted, but yet the string didn't bisect the bow like it should have. I examined that bow for more than an hour and couldn't figure out why. I didn't buy the bow as a result.

I think Yellow dog may have the answer.

[Wolfkiss]

Hello kibok&ko,
                Your riser is similar to mine in riser thickness, it is an 05 3 rivers, bought second hand. It shoots well with its fastflight no1 bear limbs.I will also pick up some rose oak no3's when I get some spare cash.

What I have found playing with the camera is that I can get an arrow angle just like yours if I hold the camera left hand side of the arrow. The pic below was taken from above the arrow.

I don't think you have anything to worry about.
Looking at the pic from 3 rivers, I would say our risers are just as thick in the middle, and cut to the same centre, just more radiused across the width, hence the exagerated arrow angle.


 

[Trad-Man]

I don't own any BEAR equipment but I have shot a few Super K's.  Not one of them looked like this to any extent.  I would notice that right off as it would bug the living daylights out of me.  BUT...they wern't take downs.  Which...if the design is similar I would expect the same look and feel between the two models.

As such...I would have a serious look at the limbs and pockets.  Is it possible to swap the upper and lower limbs?  If so try it and see it the problem corrects itself or moves in the other direction...if so you know the problem is in the limbs.  Not twisted but perhaps cut improperly or to fit into a specific pocket.

If no improvement in swapping then see if you can find a way to see if the pockets on the riser are cut "square".  (I don't know how to describe what I visualizing).  That may prove difficult as you need something to square off of.  The factory would set the handle up in a fixture for this.

I hope this makes sense.

[Cherokee Scout]

It is my opinion that this bow is not right. I have seen and owned a lot of bows. An arrow should not fit on the shelf like that. You can explain camera angles all day, but the fact is the limbs and string are not in proper alignment with the riser. I would bet that the riser was cut incorrectly where the latches attach and as a result, the latches are not in proper position.

[vintage-bears]

Originally posted by kibok&ko:
Hello Guys, i have a question about this old Bear TD

Look please at the position/ angle of the arrow on the shelf

 

Is that OK for this type of old bow or is it a twist limbs problem ?

Thank you / David

Hi David.
I have a modern A riser like yours and the arrow situation was the same. It drove me crazy!
It shot ok once I got in tune to the bow....BUT,
being a perfectionist,
I simply did not like it.  
I filed the riser window slightly past center and while I was at it, I lowered and crowned the shelf and then put on a sweet finish using fullerplast.
I will dig it out and post some pics for you once the hurricane comes and goes    

It's still a Bear T/D and a great bow!.........Philip

[joekeith]

Originally posted by Cherokee Scout:
Send it back! If they will replace it you will be much better off.

I agree with this......get it fixed, and fixed right.

[kibok&ko]

Originally posted by Yellow Dog:
I had two sets of Gainesville limbs that did the same thing to the centershot of the bow. A set of #1's and a set of #3's. Flip the bow over and sight down the string to see if they are in the center of the limbs. The two sets I had, that I bought used, had a hook in the limb right at the transition from the limb butt into the working area of the limb. Was a bad setup when they glued up and finished the limbs at the factory. Sold both sets with full discloser of what the problem with them was, and both buyers told me they couldn't see a problem with them. But there was. One set was so bad the fletchings on my arrows in the quiver would hit the limb on the shot. Here's what you should see if the alignment is correct.

     

hello Yellow dog Thank for your pic , look a mine , that look OK for me

 

[kibok&ko]

Originally posted by Wolfkiss:
Hello kibok&ko,
                Your riser is similar to mine in riser thickness, it is an 05 3 rivers, bought second hand. It shoots well with its fastflight no1 bear limbs.I will also pick up some rose oak no3's when I get some spare cash.

What I have found playing with the camera is that I can get an arrow angle just like yours if I hold the camera left hand side of the arrow. The pic below was taken from above the arrow.

I don't think you have anything to worry about.
Looking at the pic from 3 rivers, I would say our risers are just as thick in the middle, and cut to the same centre, just more radiused across the width, hence the exagerated arrow angle.


 

hello Andy , thank you for you pic and your help , i think also now it's ok , just the overlay is so thin that the angle look specialy "wierd" ...

special order or special design or a big bite of a grinder under control for a second  ? we will never now probably , i ask to 3R customer service if they have an idea or if it was a special design  ... so far no answer ...

Look Andy i'm almost sure "mine" is thiner ...

 

[Orion]

Kibok: It could be camera angle again, but it looks like your upper limb is tilted a little to the left.  The string on the lower limb seems to bisect the lower latch, as it should.  So should the string on the upper limb bisect the upper latch, but it seems to be a bit left of center.  If the limb it tilted in that direction (and it could still be a camera angle issue) it would tend to move the string/nock to the left, actually reducing the angle of the arrow on the shelf.  

If it works for you, time to stop worrying about it.  As I said before, can always move the strike plate forward a little and/or reduce its thickness to reduce the angle a little.  Good luck.

[kibok&ko]

hello Orion it's just a camera angle i tried putting arrows on the limbs and it's ok !

i'm going to follow your advice to reduce the thickness of the strike plate !

[bswear]

Thanks for ruining my day!  My 2011 A riser exhibits this too, but is not nearly as bad.  Not sure why I never noticed it before!  Anyone know what the fix is?  Send it back?  Have Bowdoc carve on it?

[Orion]

bswear:  The bows are cut to center, but the side plate is not radiused much back to belly.  The strike plate adds about 1/8-inch more from center. Additionally, the leading edge of the strike plate is usually near the rear/belly of the side plate, accentuating the arrow angle on the bow. Thinning the side plate and moving it forward will reduce the problem a bit.

Keep in mind, though, that it's pretty much just a visual thing.  If self-bows and other bows cut to center also had such a long side-plate/rest, one would see the same evidence on their shelf rugs.  The key to good arrow flight is still the same, of course, selecting the correct spine.

[bswear]

Orion

Thanks.  I am shooting a Bear Weather rest and it is pretty thick and  I have the rest center located directly above the deepest park of the grip.
I am not thinking about it any more.  but it may be an excuse if I mmmmmmiss!

[kibok&ko]

Originally posted by Orion:
bswear:  The bows are cut to center, but the side plate is not radiused much back to belly.  The strike plate adds about 1/8-inch more from center. Additionally, the leading edge of the strike plate is usually near the rear/belly of the side plate, accentuating the arrow angle on the bow. Thinning the side plate and moving it forward will reduce the problem a bit.

Keep in mind, though, that it's pretty much just a visual thing.  If self-bows and other bows cut to center also had such a long side-plate/rest, one would see the same evidence on their shelf rugs.  The key to good arrow flight is still the same, of course, selecting the correct spine.

Orion is right , d'ont worry and on mine it's look worst probably co's the Bear operator fall in sleep on this riser with the machine doing the job ... and the result so far is "just"  visual

 it's not a special design ordered by 3R i just recieved the confirmation from 3R Mr J.KArch  last night. unfortunatly when the riser was made and sell nobody noticed this very thin and not very usual part of the riser.

i'm going to use a thiner palte and  hope finaly this will not bring me to a break down one day specialy if i change for FF limbs , What do you think guy's ?

[kibok&ko]

a friend of mine shooting with this WE , he shoot 3 under persoal i use split