Bear Arrows

[GreenGrizz]

Has anyone ever weighed and calculated the FOC on an original Bear arrow (wood or fiberglass) with a razorhead mounted? The spine information would also be useful. I'm curious as to how these arrows compare to the Ashby recommendations and where the FOC falls.

[JimB]

I haven't but Port Orford cedar and a 125 gr head would put them in the normal FOC range,probably 11-15%.Fiberglass would be even less as it is heavier but the weight is evenly distributed along the shaft.

[Hot Hap]

Never done it, but I believe it would be 7-8%. Hap

[JimB]

I was way off.I weighed and measured an old cedar arrow with a 125 gr head.29",424 grs,I have no idea what spine.It is 17% FOC.Up to 18% there are no gains so it might as well be 7%.A heavier shaft with the same weight head would be less.

[Orion]

Jim:  Do 't know how you're measuring FOC, but I can't come close to 17% with a 125 grain point on a cedar shaft.  Been shooting cedars for a lot of years. The typical FOC until recently has been in the 7-10% range, not because folks strived for it (many didn't even know what it was), but that was just the typical outcome of putting a 125-135 grain point on a wood shaft. Don't have any Bear woodies anymore, but my guess is most would fall in 7-10% FOc range.

[JimB]

Well,this particular arrow is extremely light-like carbon arrow light and may be a bad example.294 grs without point.That is the reason.It feels awfully weak in spine.But it is 17%.

[Bjorn]

Ok I dug up an old Bear arrow from about 1962, judging by cresting and feather cut. It is 30" long weighs 496 gn and 51# spine, 125 gn point FOC 10%- about what I would have guessed.

[JamesKerr]

It's amazing isn't it. We are all worried about what foc we have and how heavy an arrow is. Maybe for most of us shooting 50-60 pounds we ought to get an arrow that flies right and just shoot it for whatever we want to hunt. Now for those who wish to shoot cape buffalo and the like get a 65# bow and an arrow over 650 grains and go kill your buffalo.

[Hot Hap]

James-That sounds like a plan to me. Hap

[Shawn Leonard]

Hap knows of what he speaks! I would like to add that I too feel it is way more important to have an arrow that is flying perfect than one tha has 25% foc and wobbling around like a top on its final turns. I still get a kick out of this 10 gpp. mentality  as well. I shoot 470 grain arrow out of my 52# at my draw bow(9gpp.) so tell me how would it be better to shoot that same arrow out of a 47# bow just because it gives me 10 gpp. Same as high FOC I shoot 190 grains up front so at 47#s it is gonna have a higher FOC, but as I said if it is not flying straight and true as it does out of y 52#s than that extra FOC is wasted. Shawn

[Javi]

Originally posted by Shawn Leonard:
Hap knows of what he speaks! I would like to add that I too feel it is way more important to have an arrow that is flying perfect than one tha has 25% foc and wobbling around like a top on its final turns. I still get a kick out of this 10 gpp. mentality  as well. I shoot 470 grain arrow out of my 52# at my draw bow(9gpp.) so tell me how would it be better to shoot that same arrow out of a 47# bow just because it gives me 10 gpp. Same as high FOC I shoot 190 grains up front so at 47#s it is gonna have a higher FOC, but as I said if it is not flying straight and true as it does out of y 52#s than that extra FOC is wasted. Shawn

But Shawn... who say that a heavy arrow with high FOC "HAS TO" wobble... It is entirely possible and very easy to build an arrow that will fly very well with those specs.. I build a 12.5 GPP with 16% FOC all the time.. in fact I'm building 2 dozen right now..

I like the heavier mass weight and the FOC while not up to Asbey's standards make a very forgiving arrow in the Texas wind... and since I rarely shoot at animals beyond 25 yards the added weight makes very little difference in trajectory over a 9 GPP arrow with less FOC..

If I were still competing in field or NAA archery or hunting open country I might think differently but I ain't... so I don't    

BTW I too shot the old Bear arrows and the only reason I shot the ones I did with the 125 grain heads is; that is all there was available at the time... at least around my stomping grounds...

[Bjorn]

Javi we must have the same exact arrow recipe-that is how mine turn out too.
With her dying breath my cow elk wished I'd a had just 5% more FOC!    

[Shawn Leonard]

Mike not saying it does, but guys were killing a lot of stuff with those old Bear arrows and up until the last 10 years or so no one cared about their FOC.  I just think people are worrying way to much about this FOC and should just get an arrow that flies perfect from their set up and go kill stuff! This runs along the lines of guy saying they like to shoot an arrow that is the magical 10gpp. Funny I shoot a 470 grain arrow that is 9gpp out of my 52# bow, so I would be better off shooting that out of a 47# bow so I have that magical 10gpp. I find that a joke as well. 470 grains is 470 grains whether shot out of a 47# bow or a 52# bow, if you can get that 470 grain arrow to fly perfect from the 52# bow why would ya shoot it out of the 47#er(only exception would be is if 47#s of weight is all ya could handle). See my point Mike, I see ya shoot around 50#s,(just to make the math simple) times that by 12.5 and you have a 625 grain arrow, now up the weight to 60# and the arrow weight goes down to  a tad over 10gpp. you mean to say that arrow don't buck the wind as well? Of course it does, it is still the same  weight arrow but now it is going faster and the trajectory is better. Notice I did not say the same arrow as it probably would not fly the same out of the 60# bow. No matter what the gpp. of bow weight is a 625 grain arrow is a 625 grain arrow, wheter shot out of a 45# bow or a 70# bow. Shawn

[Javi]

That’s true Shawn; a 625 grain arrow will buck the wind better and penetrate better than a 470 grain arrow when shot from the same bow.  Simple physics…   Flatter trajectory; come on at 25 and under it’s really a moot point especially when shooting instinctively.  Speed does help in a wind and with trajectory, there’s no denying that… again simple physics..  And since we’re not talking about shooting beyond 25 yards the mass/velocity loss equation isn’t really in play (at least in my case) but the heavier arrow would win that one too, unless you got really excessive in the differential.
Bottom line, will a 470 grain arrow kill a deer when shot out of a 47 lb bow or a 52 pound bow… yes.. Will my 580-625 grain arrow kill a deer when shot out of my 46lb or my 50lb bow... Yes
And finally… would a well tuned 650 grain arrow buck the wind better, be more forgiving of slight release bobbles, be quieter off the bow and penetrate better from your 52lb bow than the 470 grain arrow…  in my opinion… yes and I would always recommend the heavier arrow for those not shooting past 25 yards…. Increase the yardage and things start to change…
For what it’s worth I don’t think 10 GPP is a magic number; otherwise I’d be shooting 460-500 grains.
 I do believe that one should shoot the heaviest arrow that the bow will practically handle for the hunting situation of the moment. I also believe that a reasonable FOC is a boost in both flight and penetration, what is reasonable… it’s situational of course but for my hunting it’s 14% - 16%... Larger, heavier skinned and boned game may require more..
 
I doubt we will ever come to an agreement on this subject for as adamantly opposed to heavy arrows as you are, I’m just as sold on them.. I only seek to offer the alternative to light arrows when shooting deer sized animals at less than 25 yards…

[JamesKerr]

The only reason I mentioned the 10 gpp is I think it is a good balance between flight and penetration. That said I never take a shot past 30 yards and my 11 gpp arrow gets there just fine.

[GreenGrizz]

No real experience here but my arrows are from 8.6gpp to 9.5gpp and an FOC over 14.5% (4 different bows/arrows). If I don't dork up the release or some other aspect of the shot my arrows fly "hot, straight and normal" out to 20 yds or so. I think I'm good. Now all I need is some critter to hold still long enough.