More on the "heavy arrow" debate

[Jeff Strubberg]

The problem with most of these discussion sis that "Whic is better" is irrelevant.


The question you should be asking is "which is enough".  The truth is very few of us aren't shooting rigs capable of taking anything this side of moose.

[NorthShoreLB]

How about the noise factor with light arrows ??      


Last week I was guiding a mainland hunter, when he took a shoot at a pig with his recurve and light arrows it sounded like a cannon whent of in the forest, the pig was gone before the arrow got there.

Heavy, silent,.... a bit slower, is a winning combination in my book !!

[Rick McGowan]

That is VERY correct about quiet being better than fast. There is NO bow that comes close to shooting an arrow the speed of sound, so I will take quiet(Heavy) every time. Don't worry about which arrow will go through a shoulder blade, if you are hitting the shoulder blade, your arrow wasn't in the right spot anyway. Check out some good cutaway photos, the shoulder blade is WAY higher and farther forward than most people think. I was in Africa a couple years ago and my young PH kept trying to talk me into shooting a blue wildebeest, I told him I had NO intention of shooting one, since I think they are kind of ugly and for the $800 trophy, there were several other species that I DID want. Well he persisted FOR DAYS, finally, I said "Chris, why do you want me to shoot a wildebeest?", he said, "Rick, I've had FIVE bowhunters shoot one before you and we didn't recover ANY of them" so now I'm thinking I REALLY don't want to shoot an $800 dollar animal that nobody recovers. Well he sorta put me into the position where I HAD to shoot one and I thought to myself, I'm not taking ANY chances I'm going for a heart shot! That arrow was nearly perfect, right in the triangle, I thought "YES", Chris said, "don't worry, we MIGHT find it!" We did, it ran about a 100 yards and died from a 700 grain arrow through the heart. I asked Chris after why he was so down when I shot it, he said,"ALL FIVE BOWHUNTERS before you were shooting HEAVY compounds, but LIGHT 350-400 grain arrows and ALL of them got this much(he held his thumb and forefinger about 4 inches apart) penetration in the same spot that you shot all the way through! He talked about 700 grain arrows being the ticket every day after that!

[eagle24]

Rick,

You are right about the shoulder blade being the wrong place.  I know that.  I also know first hand, that sometimes things happen that can't be avoided and are'nt the result of a bad shot or bad shot selection.  I shot a doe in the head once.  She decided to put her head in the path of the arrow right as I released.  It did'nt turn out well.  Deer can go a long way with an arrow sticking from their head.

I also agree with you and the others who feel that a quiet bow is important.  There is no doubt in my mind you are in a world of trouble beyond 12 or so yards with a noisy bow.  You might as well guess where the deer will be when the arrow gets there and shoot for that spot.

Something that has'nt been discussed in this thread and often is not discussed is the energy the arrow has at longer ranges.  Its gonna hit a lot harder at 8yds than it will at 25yds.  Another discussion in itself I guess.

Life is full of trade-offs and compromises.  So it is with traditional bowhunting.  I have traded draw weight for an ability to shoot better.  This debate (for me) is about trading arrow weight for a little more effective range.  Don't misunderstand, I'm not talking about unethically chunking arrows at deer on the horizon.  If anything, I am probably too conservative with my shot selection.  I guess in the end, we all have to choose the setup that will make us the most ethical and best  bowhunters we can be.  Used in the right way, they will probably all work just fine.

 

[bbassi]

personally, I like my arrows to stick at least 6" into the dirt on the other side of the animal. Any less than that and you risk having the shaft fall over and getting dirt and leaves mixed with the blood on your fletch and it's a pain to wash out....

Is it hunting season yet??  

[Flatstick]

This is one of those threads that I usually read thru and then go on to another subject.

  But what the heck,,I'm gonna throw in my .02 worth this time. I think it is VERY simple, I have always shot the heaviest draw weight & arrow combination that I could shoot comfortably & accurately period. Notice all the "I's" in that statement? That's because it is what works for ME and me only. I'm the only one that knows what gives me confidence enough to release an arrow at an animal no matter what size of critter it is.

    Only YOU can determine your confidence range and set-up. Don't convince yourself you have to shoot "this or that" because Joe Blow who kills all the big bucks/bulls shoots it. Or because John Doe uses this combination or that to win all the archery shoots.

    Use the combination that YOU can pick up and shoot with confidence in any hunting situation and know YOUR limitations with it. The size and type of animal you are hunting should only determine what shot placement/angle you should attempt(my opinion). YOU are the one taking the shot,,only you know what combination of arrow & bow weight works best for you.

    Opinions from others are great learning tools and should be welcomed. But remember,,you are the one releasing the bowstring, do so with confidence in yourself and you will fill alot more tags.

    OK,,I'm off the soap box now! Who's stepp'n up next?

[doctorbrady]

Been away for a few days.  JC, thanks for the correction.  I meant grains per pound...not inch.

[LBR]

Lighter arrows are more forgiving, therefore more accurate when a distance judgment error occurs.  

Just to clarify.......

Lighter arrows may be more forgiving of distance judgement error, at least on longer shots.  Lighter arrows are less forgiving of wind, deflection (that little twig you didn't see), etc.  Lighter arrows won't help you a bit if you goof on windage, and a small goof will show up more on a longer shot.

Honestly I'm not convinced they are all that forgiving of distance even, based on an experience earlier this year.  I was shooting in a tournament with a fellow I know is a very good shot, but some of the targets were beyond his comfort zone and he hadn't been practicing at those ranges.  They weren't 50 yard shots, just a bit further than he was used to.  He was shooting a fast bow and very light arrows, and shot low on all but maybe one of these targets (when I shot the course with him).  

It boils down to personal preferance and what you are confident in, at least on animals like whitetail that aren't that hard to penetrate.  

I don't shoot super heavy or super light--my arrows naturally fall into around 9-10 grains per lb. without any tinkering.  Works for me.

Chad

[NoCams]

Is this thread still breathing , haha ???

If you are reading this see page 1 the last two posts, nuff said !!!

Greg, let's talk about how to keep Mason from wanting a Adcock after he shoots yours at Tannehill ?    

nocams

[C2@TheLibrary]

Well I came up with something a few years ago as a "guideline" take your draw weight, divide it by 10, then double the remainder and that is approximately the best grain weight per pound of draw for that bow. e.g. 40#/10 = 4 x 2 = 8 GPP 70# /10 = 7 x 2 = 14 GPP
as I say this was just a guideline or rule of thumb. It has worked well for me as a starting point.

I will add however that I am a recent convert to front loaded carbons. I shoot arrows with what most would consider whacked out F.O.C.
Right now I am shooting approximately 400 grains in the point end of 3555 Gold tips with great arrow flight with a 60ish pound d/r longbow.total arrow weight is around 700 grains. I am reasonably sure that will shoot through anything I do my part in hitting the sweet spot.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by wapiti792:

What flies best are 500gr carbons, and I use it on deer sized and smaller game. It has blown through the last 3 whitetails I have taken including a 300# buck last December. I am very tempted to hunt elk with those carbons but the whole heavy arrow debate bothers me. Any thoughts?  

Any thoughts? Yeah...

I've got a freezer full of moose, compliments of a 520-grain carbon arrow going 194 fps with a cut-on-impact 2-blade head. In one side, through both lungs, split a rib vertically on exit and flew off into the bush. It took me longer to find the arrow than the moose. Your 67# recurve should have just as much "oomph" as my setup had last September in Ontario. Fire up the grill.

Assuming those 500 grain arrows are safe to shoot out of your 67# recurve (and I can't answer that for you), I don't see a problem.