I Beam Riser Construction?

[Andy Cooper]

quote:Originally posted by Chromebuck:
Dave, indeed we are...I-beam or not there are some awesome creations going on and this site has offered us a window into them all.  

One last question.  As this thread has generated some level of concern for me could someone please quantify heavy poundage.  All my bows are in the 51-54# range and I'm hoping thats not pushing the envelope.

Have a great weekend!

     

[arrowlauncherdj]

On the dymond wood deal.  I agree with Kirk.  I bought a piece of the cocobolo dymond wood from an online place thinking man this stuff must be strong.  I thought about making a curved riser accent.  I took the piece, which was 2"x1/8" and just bent it a little bit jus to see if it would do for a bent accent.... It snapped like a toothpick and basically fragmented like a piece of clay pottery.  

Now actionwood, on the otherhand does not do that, nor have any of the 1/8 strips of figured maple I have lying around the workbench.  So I def dont trust dymond wood, it is brittle as hell.  Better a bend than a break IMHO.

Dave

[Walt Francis]

All this discussion makes me think you are all trying to reinvent the horse; Didn't Jack Howard answer these questions about fifty years ago? His bows had metal inserted to adderss strength and regidity.

[Andy Cooper]

Originally posted by Walt Francis:
All this discussion makes me think you are all trying to reinvent the horse; Didn't Jack Howard answer these questions about fifty years ago? His bows had metal inserted to adderss strength and regidity.

As soon as the horse gets reinvented, then I expect y'all to reinvent how to feed them. Hay is getting expen$ive!    

I don't look at all this as reivention, Walt. I simply look at it as a bunch of bowyers/archers with a passion for finding the very best ways to build better, more durable bows. They have the artistic side nailed, IMHO!

[Archie]

This is all just a question of risk, risk acceptance, and risk mitigation.  Let's say a traditional (no-phenolic) riser is 95% risk-free.  Then someone starts putting phenolic into risers, and ups that percentage to 97% risk-free, but with the additional cost in $$, increased mass weight, and perhaps a different look.  Then the I-beam comes along and promises a 98.5% risk-free riser, but with its added costs as well.  And then someone invents an "unbreakable" titanium riser that mitigates more risk and gives you a riser that is 99.5% risk-free...

The truth is that the 95% no-failure rate was pretty good in the first place, and a guy probably doesn't have to worry much.  This whole conversation equates to deciding which car to buy, after watching online crash-test videos and reading Consumer Reports articles on safety.  We all determine what is best for us, based on cost/affordability, particular use, aesthetics, etc.

(Of course, you know that my percentages are all abstract; I am certain that the reliability rate of a well-made non-phenolic riser is greater than 95%.)

I wouldn't sweat the lack of an I-beam, but would enjoy it's added security.

[KentuckyTJ]

Chromebuck, I seriously think you are putting way too much thought into this. Do you have any idea of how much greater your chances are from being eaten by one of your brown bears or killed by a truck on the road.

Today's bowyers which ever you choose have been through all this and I can assure you they know how their products perform. Especially the ones that have been doing this for many many years. Do you have any idea how many non I-beam bows that are out there and have been performing for years and years? Me either but I'd bet it's in the millions. Nothing to worry about brother if you go with a bowyer with a long track record.

I beam bows are definitely in the minority of all the bows made today. If risers breaking was a problem it would be the other way around don't you think?

[overbo]

WOW!
Got to love it when one bowyer suggest that another builds their bow more cheaply and dosen't give the extra effort that they do.

[Archie]

I don't think any bowyers are putting others' methods down.  But I do think some of them are pushing the speed/power demand/output of their materials to the point that they just feel better about using a reinforced riser.

[owlbait]

[Hoyt]

I don't see anything wrong with having different choices.

[Chromebuck]

Originally posted by KentuckyTJ:
Chromebuck, I seriously think you are putting way too much thought into this. Do you have any idea of how much greater your chances are from being eaten by one of your brown bears or killed by a truck on the road.

No worries Tom!  I kind of played into that hand like a sheepish newbie that was second guessing my purchase.  It's all part of the fun with the written word I guess.  I have great confidence in my current bowyer and will fling arras like theres no tomorrow when I receive.  The responses were interesting and becoming a bit  bias so I struck with mellow drama to emphasize how impressionable this venue can be.  Everything on the net I have learned to take at face value many campfires ago.

 

[Earl E. Nov...mber]

It probably came about as a mater of economics.. A cheap piece of maple with some rose wood slaps is probably cheaper that solid rose wood.

For sure that is where the butcher block risers came from..

[Lee Robinson .]

I would only use an I beam if the I beam did not extend into the fadeouts. I believe having different materials laminated in an I beam form and having them fade out into the limb laminations would create varying stresses in the fadeout, as it isn't likely that all the laminated materials would flex evenly.

For this reason, I think the idea behind I beam construction is best when the bow is a 3 piece take down.

This is why I use my riser laminations in a manner that is not an "I beam" but in a manner that they run parallel with the limb laminations. I feel such method promotes a more consistent fadeout.

That said, bows have been made BOTH WAYS for a long time...

[Sixby]

Originally posted by overbo:
WOW!
Got to love it when one bowyer suggest that another builds their bow more cheaply and dosen't give the extra effort that they do.

No need to stoke a fire. That is not what my intent was at all. I am a proponent of the I beam construction because of my experiences and I know for a fact that the I beam has eliminated the problems and increased the efficiency and shootability of my bows and designs.

It is not nor was meant to be a reflection on any other bowyer. That is with the exception of me saying I could not understanding any bowyer argueing that an I beam does not add to the strength of a riser when scientificaly it does.

I don't remember calling any bowyer cheap or giving of any less effort. It certainly is not in my heart or mind to do so.

God bless you all, Steve

[owlbait]

quote:Originally posted by Chromebuck:
  It's all part of the fun with the written word I guess.  Everything on the net I have learned to take at face value many campfires ago.

       

[Sixby]

Shakes his head and walks away. Time to do something worthwhile. Like drink a good cup of coffee!!!!!
Nothing like a real good leg pulling to make me sleepy.
Chromebuck when you get that new bow show it off some bro,.

God bless you all, Steve

[Crooked Stic]

Not much I can add here. I do use Ibeams in my bows for strength. Mostly wood beams of a stronger wood or ifthe main part is known strong the the beam will be just added insurance.
Somebody asked why we call them I-beams-------------Cause it sounds cooler  

[LongStick64]

I have only come across one bow with a riser that broke and in this case it had nothing to do with what wood/phenolic used or not, it was due to the bowyer changing the design of the riser. The bowyer admitted it to me and we worked out a resolution.

For myself if I am going to buy a bow and I don't trust the man making it, I have to ask myself what am I doing.

[Andy Cooper]

Nuttin' like a bit o' mellow-drama to keep the cyber-convo's going! There are some gems of info scattered about in this thread. Now, it's time for that cuppa coffee Sixby mentioned!

Good luck with your new bow, Chrome Buck!!