Starting out questions - also local pro shop suspicious?

[OrnglDave]

Hi guys,

I'm new both to TradGang and to archery. I have a lot of questions about my new equipment, if the shop is shady, etc. and I appreciate your time.

I live in Western Massachusetts and found the only store with recurves in under an hour and a half for me was Belchertown R and R Sports Shop (Google if you need to, I don't want to post an external link...).

So I went there and got an October Mountain Products Explorer 58" 32# @ 24". OMP sells them for $125 online, I got it for $150, which isn't a bad price. My draw weight is low because I'm recovering from a disability.

My draw length is a closer to 26" but the fellow there said I won't break the bow. Is this true? When I was looking into making my own I certainly wouldn't go over the draw length I made it for, but this is a "modern" recurve...

Also he fitted me out with Carbon Express 3050 Predator (0.5" spline) arrows with field tips. 6 for $35. They seem good to use but I've already broken four of them in three shooting sessions. Two were my own stupid fault; two others broke in soft mud (mushrooming).

The shop didn't seem to have an incredibly large selection of arrows for "traditional" (i.e. non-compound) bows there, which is part of why I'm suspicious. The other reasons is that one of the arrowheads came unglued taking it out of the target. (It came out, but it was loose. I shot it a few more times and it retains the insert, it just turns freely).

For a target, I got a huge piece of burlap for like $4 at a fabric store, sewed it up into a sac maybe 2.5' wide and 5' tall. Backed it with 3" pieces of foam and heaped tons of scraps and rags into tall plastic bags and shoved 'em inside. (Used the bags so if the burlap burst I could easily shove the bags in something else). It seems to be doing great, it's about a foot thick. I don't see any reason that an arrowhead would become unglued being shot into it... is this a poor target to use?

Ideally I'd like to do some stump shooting but these arrows are mushrooming or shattering near the tip going into wet dirt on a 40" slope (just on the edge of being mud)

I don't have lots of money to spend left and right, I'm very happy with my bow and (if the target is OK by your standards) I'm happy with the target. But I read about footing arrows - it seems to be what I need to go stump shooting.

So I'll summarize my questions here:

1) With a 32# recurve between 24 and 26" draw, what would you recommend as an arrow? Did they outfit me well?
2) Why did a tip come unglued? Is that because the fellow who did them doesn't know what he's doing?
3) Should I order arrows myself and foot them? If so, what do I order for footing? There was a really great post with 3 videos about it but I don't know much about the terms and just posting #'s for the kinds of aluminum isn't too helpful.
4) Does it sound like I should keep going to that shop? The archery fellow said he shoots compound, not recurve, so maybe he isn't the best to get advice from?

I seem to be doing OK on form, anchor point, and accuracy considering how new I am to this.

Thank you all!

[lpcjon2]

For arrows I would go to dicks you can get some Easton aluminum arrows cheaper $20.00 per 6. two inches past the bows draw will add about 5-6# to the weight you shoot. as far as it breaking only the bowyer would know, but I have a few bows I draw 2-3" past the marked draw without a problem.Your target is fine. Practice form and not accuracy for a while then move to accuracy or you will mentally compensate for bad form.Until you get good spend your money at local sporting good stores for arrows. its much cheaper.

[OrnglDave]

Originally posted by lpcjon2:
...For arrows I would go to dicks you can get some Easton aluminum arrows cheaper $20.00 per 6...

Thank you for your reply. I am focusing on form more than accuracy, which is part of why my accuracy is so low (I hope!)

Let me explain: in a typical round I will get a tight-ish grouping (around 6" from the centermost arrow). If that group ends up near a target or not is not so certain; in this case, the consistency in grouping but not accuracy (to what I'm targeting) seems to indicate poor form to me.

Anyhow. $20 for 6 arrows is certainly better, but if a little work means making decent arrows last, I'm all for it. Breaking 2 in a half hour shooting session adds up; at that rate, I'd be spending $20/week on them and getting down to 2 arrows to use in a round by the end of that week. Maybe it would be good motivation to get more accurate, but budgeting even $80/mo. is hard at the moment.

Thanks!

[lpcjon2]

Dick sells Gold Tip Devastator carbon arrows six for twenty bucks. And unless you shoot them into concrete you shouldn't brake them.

  And you should click on the "new to trad archery" flashing words under the trad gang store banner.
, Directly up top.

[Killdeer]

Your CE arrows are very good. I am not sure if a .500 spine is weak enough, as you are shooting about 38 pounds at your draw. But if they are full length and you are using a heavy enough head, they should serve you well and be handy once you recover enough to raise your draw weight.

Footing your arrows will prevent the mushrooming. You can probably find "feets" at 3Rivers for CE shafting, or find out what aluminum shafts will fit around your arrow.

Aluminum shafting numbers look more confusing than they are. The first two numbers refer to the outside diameter of the shaft in 64ths of an inch. The second pair of numbers is the wall thickness in thousandths of an inch. So, an 1816 arrow, which by the way, should be just dandy for your bow when cut to 27 or 28", is 18/64" in diameter, and the wall of the shaft is .016" thick.

You can reglue the inserts into the arrow. Lord knows a mess of mine have come loose in my lifetime. Use a hotmelt or Gorilla glue, or something designed for carbons and metal.

Your shop seems to me to be doing as best they can by you, I see no hint of shadiness. Most shops are wallowing in trad ignorance, but we all start somewhere. The bow, being a glass-backed composite, should be safe to shoot at your draw. It may show a marked increase of weight if overdrawn, but I doubt it. They likely marked the draw at 24" much like Bear did the Lady Polar in its day, expecting a short draw length and wanting to give the anticipated shooter an accurate rating of pounds at full draw.

Feel free to PM me for any questions regarding set up or basic stuff that might seem unworthy of a post. But I warn you, there are lurkers out there who are mighty grateful for someone asking a question that they think might be below the level of the crowd. As I said, we all start somewhere, and somewhen.

Killdeer  

[GMASIUK]

PM sent......

[BOWMARKS]

It would be very helpfull to you if you could find a club or even an other traditional shooter in your area to help give you some coaching.  

Keep at it this is a Great Sport!!  

[GMASIUK]

X2 what killdeer said.

[Rod Witkos]

I think we need a trad shop here in western MA.

[BOWMARKS]

Originally posted by Rod Witkos:
I think we need a trad shop here in western MA.

We need them every where.  

[Shakes.602]

WELCOME  to  OUR FAMILY  here at  TRADGANG!!  You have come to the right place for Excellent Info!! These Fine Folks will shoot you straight too!!
    Personally, I would do some shopping for some good, and Reasonably Priced Wooden Arrows to Start with. Carbons are Nice, if ya like that kind of thing, but  Too Pricey  for this White Boy for what they are!! Aluminums are always a good choice, but they can get pricey as well if you are apt to losing arrows, as We  ALL  do when we first start!   :rolleyes:    

[rastaman]

You've already got some good advice here so all I will say is welcome to the gang!  

[jonsimoneau]

You r smart.  You came to the right sight. The best bow hunters in the world are on this site.   Your bow will be fine and you were very wise to start with a Lower poundage. As far as traditional gear dealers I deal with three rivers archery almost exclusively. They are the best.   WWW.3riversarchery.com.  If u like to read I recommend every book and video by Gene and Barry Wensel and Mike Mitten.  WWW.brothersofthebow.com.  Also every book by Roger Rothhaar.  Good luck and have fun!

[RRock]

Hey Rod, How are things in Hardwick? I'm an old Barre boy.

[stujay]

Good advice above...welcome to the site.  

[RM81]

Welcome to TG.

If the insert is loose, but won't come out all the way, you can lightly heat a target point while screwed into the insert to help loosen the glue.  This only works for glues that are heat reversible like hot melt.  Don't apply heat directly to a carbon shaft.  Heat the tip and then use some pliers to pull the insert out.  Loose inserts are not uncommon.  Make sure you use alcohol or acetone to clean the insert well before reapplying the glue.

As for the arrows mushrooming, I would suggest footing them with aluminum shafting.

There are a few good posts on tradgang on how to foot carbons with aluminum shafts. Here's a good one with videos and it's pretty much the same way I do it. I cut them at about 1.5" and bevel the edges on my disk sander to make them easier to pull out of targets. I use a deburring tool to chamfer the inside edge a little. Clean them really good with alcohol and I use gorilla glue to glue them flush to the end of the shaft. I've also used 2 part epoxy instead of Gorilla glue with equal results. Then glue the inserts in. You can also foot the nock end doing the same thing, but only using about 1/4" length cut of aluminum.

Here's a link to the thread.
  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=074690;p=1  

And here is where the videos are. He moved them in photobucket and the links were broken.
  http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/pactac/bombproof%20stumping%20arrow/  

Here is another post with alum. sizes for specific carbon shafts:
  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000098