Arrow help!

[Scbenton]

Hello All!!!

I just ventured over to the dark side of bow hunting and found myself interested in shooting and hunting with a recurve. Right now I have a Left Hand 58” Martin Mamba at 50 lbs and 28”. I have shot the bow for two full days and having a blast so far. I have a couple of concerns I would like to address with you all and see what you think.

When shooting the compound I was drawing around 25/25.5 inches if I remember correctly. This evening I marked out an arrow and drew back to my anchor point with the recurve and found I was around 23.5 inches. I know you lose some draw length when going from compound to recurve, but is losing 1.5 to 2 inches of draw length about right? A 23.5 inch draw length makes me feel a lot shorter then I already am at 5’5’’!!!

Also when I went to the archery shop to help me find a good arrow combination, they had me shoot only 500 spine arrows made by Beman they are 7.3/7.1 gpi. The arrow lengths ranged from 29 to 31 inches all had a 125 gr tip, he did not have me paper tune, he just watched the arrow flight and noted which arrow impacted straight in to the target. (some were going in at a slight angle) He choose the 29.5 inch arrows and said they looked to fly the best. So here is my question, is a 29.5 inch arrow to long for my draw length, plus the length of a broadhead?

The charts say I would need a 500 spine arrow, but I would like to shoot a heavier arrow (for whitetail deer) around 9.1/9.3 gpi Beman MFX or ICS Camo Hunters in the 400 spine but he said they would have to much spine.  I am worried about arrow penetration when hunting because I have such a short draw length especially more so now when shooting the recurve. Right now I am only getting about 3 maybe 4 inches of penetration at most with field points in to a rhinehart 18-1 target. Does this seem a little low? I have plenty of the arrows mentioned above from shooting my compound, if I refletch them using feathers and add a heavier point/insert is it possible to get them to tune properly?

For tuning when shooting left handed for example a tear left X-0 would indicate an arrow being on the stiff side, a tear right 0-X would mean a weak arrow?

Any information, threads I may have missed, hints, tips and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Have a good night!

[Rick Richard]

You are correct on the tear of the paper when shaft tuning.  Charts and suggestions from folks for shaft recommendations will get you close, but actual shaft tuning will determine the arrow spine for your shooting style and what the bow needs. Each bow is a little different in relation to center shot, design and how forgiving. Also, be very careful when decreasing shaft length on carbons since just a little makes a big difference.

[moebow]

Scbenton,

Welcome to traditional shooting!
First, I would suggest that you try hard to not change what you were doing with the C bow for form. Your basic form should not change and while your draw length MAY be different that is not a given.

Second, your 500 spine arrows will serve you just fine for the time being. If you are just starting out with fingers and holding 50# at full draw, you frankly have little chance to successfully tune arrows to the degree you are thinking about.  In just two days of shooting, your form and release will affect the arrow flight far more than the arrow being shot.

When you have shot enough to see the arrow's flight to be pretty consistent then that will be the time to start a tuning effort.

You will receive lots of advice and theories both here and on the "Shooter's From Forum" and this is mine.  Do some reading in both these forums, ask lots of questions, and work on consistent form.  Shoot and enjoy.

[lpcjon2]

Welcome to the fire.

  And you havnt come to the dark side, you have come into the light. Listen to the above advice and you will do fine.

  And there is a huge traditional shoot/event in Baltimore in mid May that you should try and get to. You can get some great help from other trad guys and gals.tim

[Magnum in Ms]

Those arrows are probably on the stiff side since you are drawing about [email protected]". A .600 spine arrow may work better for your setup. But you can add point weight and get your arrow weight up and improve your FOC also. Just have to try and see what works for you.

[Scbenton]

Thanks for the info!  So you think you current set up of 500 spine at 29.5 inches is ok with a 23.5 inch draw?

[moebow]

Yes, I do.  Unlike your C bow where you reduce/eliminate inconsistencies in the release due to the mechanical release, learning and getting proficient with a finger release takes some practice.  Until a new shooter starts to get a consistent release, your arrow flight will be far more affected by you than by poor spine.  When you achieve consistency, arrows will group or fly about the same.  When you get this, that will be the time to worry about paper tuning or bare shafting.  You will progress faster if you don't get the cart before the horse.

[Scbenton]

Ah ok, I see where your coming from now.  About getting the basics then playing around with different arrow set ups.

  Shooting recurve instinctively is def a whole lot different that what I'm used to as far as shooting or aiming if you can call it that.

I watched this YouTube video by this guy who goes by gray archer, and he talked about imagining a spot on your target.  So I painted one side of my 18-1 all black.  So I wouldn't have any actual dots or spots to aim/look at.  Well when I actually focused on a small imaginary spot and blacked everything else out I hit near dead on.  It was awesome.  But when I would loose focus and took in the rest of the surroundings I was not able to place the arrow where I wanted them.

As far as pulling back the string, is it best to use your finger tips between your finger nail and the first crease on your fingers or between the first crease of your fingers and the second crease?  This would be looking at the palm side of your hand.

[Night Wing]

Your arms don't suddenly get shorter when coming from shooting a compound bow to a trad bow. You're not used to holding all the weight of a trad bow at full draw so you're probably leaning in with your head to the bowstring thereby shortening your draw length.

I have a 30" draw length shooting a compound bow. With my release aid, my anchor was in the corner of my mouth.

With a trad bow and using a tab, with my anchor point in the corner of my mouth, my draw length is still 30". I don't lean into the bowstring either so my form doesn't change whether I'm shooting a compound bow or my recurve bows.

[moebow]

Here are some more suggestions for you.
1.  Do not try to hit a target (spot) for a while.  Work on your shot without regard to hitting anything.
2.  String should go into the first joint of your index and middle finger and on the pad of your ring finger.
3.  Go tho the "shooter's form forum" and do a search for " release tips" which takes you to some of my videos; Do a search for Jimmy Blackman's videos ( he goes by RangerB) and look at Terry Green's "form clock" information  on the top of the "shooter's form forum."

These are suggestions and you need to "play" with it all to find what will work for you.  It takes TIME.  You can't reasonably decide what works for you in one or two sessions.  More like a month or so with each idea.

[eminart]

Originally posted by Night Wing:
Your arms don't suddenly get shorter when coming from shooting a compound bow to a trad bow.

I'm a newbie, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But, many things can affect draw length when switching from one bow style to the next.

Many compound shooters shoot with a high wrist where that doesn't seem to be the case with traditional. Even if the traditional bow has a grip similar to a compound bow, it seems that most shoot them with the heel of the hand more down on the bow where many compound shooters, with this same style grip, shoot with the heel of their hand not touching the grip. This will shorten draw length.

Another thing is that many compound shooters anchor lower and because of that, draw longer to get the higher part of their string back to their face/anchor point.

Of course there can be many other factors like the length and style of the mechanical release, etc.

Just my .02 worth.

[Scbenton]

Thinking back to shooting my compound my kisser button comes to the corner of my mouth, which sits maybe an inch or more above the knocking point, and when using a release I would anchor my left index finger right in the pocket behind my left ear lobe.  I guess that makes up for the shortage on the recurve.

Tonight I tried anchoring back a little further, before I would anchor my middle finger at the corner of my mouth. Now I'm trying to anchor wear my index finger would sit right under my cheekbone and my thumb would come to the corner of my eye.