Papertuning and Bareshaft tuning results...any suggestions?

[Onlyaspike]

Well, I picked up my arrows yesterday and started tuning a little today. Im shooting a 45# Hoyt Gamemaster 2, Gold Tip 35/55 trads @ 30" ....Ive shot everything from a 125gr fieldtip to 245gr points and I just dont know what exactly I should do...this is what I kinda got so far
 Papertuning:
 125 gr fieldtip....2.5" tear (stiff arrow)
 145 gr fieltip....just under a 2" rt tear ( stiff arrow)
 145gr tip w/ 50 gr behind insert....1" to 1.5" rt tear ( still stiff)
 145gr tip w/ 100gr behind nsert.. . near perfect through paper..maybe very slight rt tear
 
Im just amazed at how much point weight I needed to get rid of the RT tear...
 
Bareshaft Tuning..with the 125-145 gr tips my bareshafts are impacting about 4"-5" LEFT of my fletched arrow....with the weight behind the tip they come a little closer..prob. around 2" at 20 yrds roughly....For some reason when I'm shooting with just the 145gr fielldpoints it seems like I can hit what Im aiming at pretty consistantly. With the 195gr- to 245gr point weight the arrow falls out of the sky like a rock in the last couple yards...so it has me kinda concerned. I might be able to get my point on closer with the heavier point weights if I cut down the length of the shafts a little and that would maybe set my mind at ease a little....just not 100% convinced.
I shot my 45# Dorado through paper and I didnt think I needed so much weight up front ( I shot that bow with 29.5" GT 35/55 trads w/ 145gr. - 165gr heads)....

Whats everyone suggest? Should I use the 100gr brass inserts and then Id be able to buy a 100-125 gr head/point ? Or should I just stick to what worked for me in the past...it might not give me a great paper tear/tune but for some reason with just the 145gr tips seems to shoot well....any suggetsions? Thanks.

[Zradix]

If your form seems to be consistent....

You should get an arrow setup that flies straight.
Right now it sounds like the only setup flying straight has 245 grains of tip weight.

You say you don't like the way it falls off at distance...understandable.

If you want to shoot a lighter overall arrow, it seems to me you need to get some lighter spined shafts.

I'm sorry but I can't recommend what shafts, but If it were me I'd be thinking at least one step down...maybe two.

Fact is I know nothing of carbon shafts...sorry.

Maybe there is a sportshop in the area with a range where you could try out a couple different shaft spines and see what works best for you?

[JamesKerr]

I would say to go with the bare shafting results. Bare shafting is the only way I tune a bow. I am not sure though by reading your post if you are trying to watch the flight of a bare shaft or are you seeing how they group with your fieldtips.

[A.S.]

Another thing to consider is what type of string/silencer are you using. If you have a big, thick string and a large amount of string silencer, you can see a big difference in your arrow spine requirements by going to a "skinny" string nd smaller string silencers.

Recently I was able to tune a 39# bow with the same arrows/points that I had previously shot out of a 50# bow, just by going to a skinny string and a small amount of wool yarn for the silencers.

[AkDan]

longer arrow. (dont remember how long they come uncut, I dont shoot them)

Both bareshafting and paper are telling you the same thing.  bareshafts left of fletched are still stiff.

If you're going to stick with the 35-55, your only options going longer arrow and/or heavier heads.  If you dont want the super extreme head weight longer shafts really is your only option with these shafts.  

 Dont forget adding fletching adds weight, along with capping and cresting, which can depending on your bow bump you to too stiff all over again!

imho...get it tuned, your shooting and penetration is going to be much good'r.   You're relying on your fletching to try and correct too much when you're out of tune....., I am kind of suprised that far out you dont have broadhead flight issues?

[Biathlonman]

He'a at full length on the shafts so would have to drop down to the 1535 if he wants to shoot faster/flatter.

[Zradix]

Originally posted by Biathlonman:
He'a at full length on the shafts so would have to drop down to the 1535 if he wants to shoot faster/flatter.

That was what I was thinking too...but I don't work with carbons.

That seems a bit light by the numbers...but the results won't lie.

I'm suspecting some form issues.

You could try spacing out the plate a bit.

[Hippie Chris]

I'm amazed at the spine difference when you cut just a tad off of carbons. I'm shooting about the same tip weight to get my arrows tuned.

[AkDan]

I wonder if footing them would help?  Never tried it and havent bothered following the thread on footed carbons/alum but I Think it was a possiblity?   I wonder if it would decrease the dynamic spine by increasing length?

[eminart]

Originally posted by AkDan:
I wonder if footing them would help?  Never tried it and havent bothered following the thread on footed carbons/alum but I Think it was a possiblity?   I wonder if it would decrease the dynamic spine by increasing length?

I believe footing them would have the opposite effect. It will make them stiffer.

[AkDan]

what I was thinking....could you foot them and run your head in the aluminum, not just use the aluminum for a collar?   So splice on say 3"es (random) of extra arrow with the aluminum...... Boredom makes the mind wander   .  Tired of tying flies for the day.

[Onlyaspike]

Originally posted by A.S.:
Another thing to consider is what type of string/silencer are you using. If you have a big, thick string and a large amount of string silencer, you can see a big difference in your arrow spine requirements by going to a "skinny" string nd smaller string silencers.

Recently I was able to tune a 39# bow with the same arrows/points that I had previously shot out of a 50# bow, just by going to a skinny string and a small amount of wool yarn for the silencers.

I think this might be contributing to my problems...ON my 45# Dorado I tied on a "small" set of cat whiskers....I just bought this bow and It has a "BIG" set of catwhiskers and also has the rubber bumpers on the string that protect the string/limb from contact...these gotta weigh a ton.....I'll pull these off today and see what happens. Thanks.

[Onlyaspike]

Originally posted by Zradix:
 

Originally posted by Biathlonman:
He'a at full length on the shafts so would have to drop down to the 1535 if he wants to shoot faster/flatter.

That was what I was thinking too...but I don't work with carbons.

That seems a bit light by the numbers...but the results won't lie.

I'm suspecting some form issues.

You could try spacing out the plate a bit. [/b]

Im definately not an olympic archer...my form isnt perfect by no means, but I am pretty consistant....
 By "spacing out the plate " do you mean moving the arrow out away from the riser ? I just put on a NAP flipper centerrest.....I have it all the way in against the riser....

[Workaholic1]

i don't know a whole lot, so take this with a grain of salt.  you just put on a centerrest, and it's all the way against the riser.  that could be your problem.  i'm not familiar with the gamemaster, but i'm betting that if you move your rest to where it's centershot, instead of against the riser, you'll see a difference in the what the bow wants for an arrow.  from my little bit of experience, the further past center shot the riser is at, the weaker spine that will be needed to get good flight.  my 2 cents.

-rich

[Onlyaspike]

Originally posted by Workaholic1:
i don't know a whole lot, so take this with a grain of salt.  you just put on a centerrest, and it's all the way against the riser.  that could be your problem.  i'm not familiar with the gamemaster, but i'm betting that if you move your rest to where it's centershot, instead of against the riser, you'll see a difference in the what the bow wants for an arrow.  from my little bit of experience, the further past center shot the riser is at, the weaker spine that will be needed to get good flight.  my 2 cents.

-rich

Against the riser is where it looked to put the arrow in line with the center of the riser...

[Onlyaspike]

I took the rubber bumpers off the string, trimmed the catwhiskers down a little bit too and it seemed to help a little. When I shot it through paper I really conscentrated on my grip and tried to get the cleanest release I could...with the 195gr. point weight I was getting about a 1" tail rt. tear....with the 145 about a 2" tear.....I have my BH set at 8" exactly....I trimmed one arrow down to 29.5" long to help me out with my "point on" aiming distance and it was super close at 20yrds...I shot 3 -10's w/ 2-x's with the 29.5" shaft and 195gr. point weight. I think even though I get a better paper tear with the 245gr point weight Im might stick with the 195gr point weight....I have a good "point on "distance and flight seems very good. My papertear wasnt all that much better anyways with the 245gr. point weight......