Coyote Issue-Georgia study

[BrushWolf]

In my region of Ohio very few fawns are seen come mid-summer. Some of the deer that I have taken in the past few years have been some of the oldest age wise. I fear, in a few years we will be hunting ghosts. It gets harder every year as the deer population seems to dwindle. Now as for predators, the coyotes and bobcats are thriving. Since bobcats are currently protected by the State controlling them is out of the question. I try to do my part in keeping coyote numbers down with the help of a few steel traps. Over the past five seasons I have removed 100+ from the 3 major farms I deer hunt on. It may help some but overall I haven't seen a drastic improvement. You just can't get em all.  

[PaddyMac]

We need to think in bigger bites of time. Yup, coyotes are native continent-wide but they were never as abundant as they are now. It was eradication of wolves in the east (and west too for that matter) that allowed both coyote and deer populations to soar.

I remember there not being many deer in Illinois either when I was growing up. I did a story one time when I dug up a biological survey in the 1940s that put the total state deer population at quite a bit under 1,000 deer.  (This was at the end of market gunning and Depression era subsistence hunting.) It was in the late 60s/early 70s that IDNR (back then it was the Ill Dept. of Conservation) shifted emphasis from upland game birds to deer management, and successfully, too. At that time a coyote siting was pretty rare. Deer populations increased rapidly, and THEN so did the coyote population, coming over from Missouri on winter ice.

Wolves are the only real predators of coyotes. (actually violent competitors) But it was not hunting, trapping and poisoning that lowered coyote populations. That is what lowered wolf populations. Coyote populations were already low and reacted to increases in deer populations. I'm not for a second advocating wolf reintroduction back east. And I don't think we can put a serious dent in the coyote population simply with hunting, but we should try.

In my opinion, we are on uncharted ground.

[gringol]

eminart,

I agree with you in principle, but I don't agree that we will ever return to any form of natural balance, especially in the eastern US.  Coyotes,like foxes, do self-regulate, but the self-regulation comes when the prey population collapses.  Food sources for coyotes in the eastern US will never collapse because people have completely upset the natural balance.  There are livestock, pets, rats, etc everywhere, so there is no end in sight to a growing coyote population if you wait for their food source to collapse.

[Brianlocal3]

I have to agree alot with eminart.  I PERSONALLY feel thae WE as humans thru managing game animals to levels we want , set the coyotes up for success. They are small enough to hide well (wolfs not so much) but big enough and smart enough to take down most any prey they choose. Plus they are adaptable. They don't need a perfect environment . They just need an alright environment.
They are amazing animals, who are very fun to hunt.

 Now, if they tasted good, everyone would be so happy right now you wouldn't be able to see straight.

[BWD]

In addition to liberal doe limits and coyotes, deer are having to compete for food with an increasing population of feral hogs in many parts of Georgia. Hard to compete with a hog.

[Sam McMichael]

I own a very small tract, but I have seen one hell of a lot of coyotes on it. I have seen a large number of dead deer, especially fawns.  I agree that part of the decline in deer sightings is over kill of does, but it is the combination of over hunting and predation that, in my opinion, makes the issue serious in my area. However, in the times before the coyote population mushroomed, we had very high kill limits and still had deer out the yingyang, causing me to believe the coyote is the major problem. I NEVER pass up a shot at a coyote, and I never go in the woods without something that shoots, whether it is a bow, a gun, or both.

Now if DNR will take a serious look at the decline in deer sightings and take appropriate action...

[Ray Hammond]

You are wrong- coyotes have been introduced to the Southeast

I've lived a lot longer than many of you and have actually seen millions of acres that had ZERO deer and ZERO coyotes in them in several states

Coyote populations have exploded here- just as they do out west when there's a rabbit 'bloom' - then both crash precipitously

I'd rather we work to manipulateruns trad of enduring a feast or famine system rise and fall  which is what will occur if an out of balance system has to correct itself

We've interfered too much with our land management and farming practices

Like it or not we can't turn off our responsibility to assist a system that can no longer balance itself because of our interference- without drastic highs and lows being the result

[Brock]

Originally posted by gringol:
 

Originally posted by Brock:
yeah but coyotes are not native to the east.....so it is making larger impact in my opinion.  drought, heat, wide open spaces, less density per mile food sources than east if I was to guess....

so nothing to help keep them in check....plus more population with large cities surrounded by forests and you have a buffet for the yotes.

I'm pretty sure coyotes are native to the east.  In fact they have thrived all over North America for a lot longer than humans.  The population of yotes is growing because we haven't killed enough of them.  If we all devoted 1/3 the time we spend hunting deer to hunting yotes I don't think we'd be having this conversation... [/b]

nope, you are wrong....no coyotes east of mississippi until bridges allowed them to cross...and people brought them over surreptitiously....coyotes are a prairie open animal.  We had red wolves but no coyotes.  NONE....they are recent addition of 20th century.

[Hoyt]

I was born and raised in Ga. When I started hunting back in the 50's there weren't any coyotes there or deer in most counties. Back then quail was king.

[Atennishu]

We have had Coyotes here in Oklahoma forever, used to be a bounty on them and you would see hides hung on fence post for miles,  probably should bring that back, we have way too many.  There are alot of people moving to the outskirts of town and finding out that coyotes love little dogs, and they dont seem to be as scared of people anymore

[Steve O]

Sounds like what we have had here in Michigan for at least a decade...very few deer except in localized spots in the southern 1/3 of the stae which is largely private land.  A DNR that manages for $$$$$$$ instead of a good solid herd, and hunters who  have been ignorant and greedy; "unlimited doe tag; ok, I will kill everything I can."

Plus a coyote explosion.


It is depressing.

[eminart]

To be fair, I think most everyone here has good points. And my opinions probably stem from the fact that I'd like to see the world's human population be about 1/32 what it is today. Obviously I don't want any kind of disaster to make it that way, but there's just way too many people. With the number of people now, you guys are probably right in that letting nature take its course isn't entirely feasible.

BUT, a deer herd will sustain a certain level of predation. We have become accustomed to most of that predation being from humans. I think we deserve ours, but I'm willing to share.

And I think whoever mentioned feral hogs brings up another good point. They can destroy an ecosystem.

[Cory Mattson]

Hey fellas not sure about this "self regulating" thing. Coyotes can eat lots of stuff besides deer and I don't see them regulating themsleves.

Coyotes do exterminate foxes since canines have zero tolerance of each other. Wolves too exterminate coyotes - I have seen it - it is quick. But I hate wolves - even though I want to keep coyotes to a minimum I kind a like having them around. They clean up a lot of trash species in the woods and for me deer move better in daylight where coyotes exist.

Right now most scat still is full of hog hair near where me and Ray hang out - and YES Ray is correct coyotes have been introduced. There introduction and expansion is man made and has happened steadily during my lifetime (I am 55) - I remember when there were few deer - many counties with none - and NO coyotes from the southern Adirondacks to the Gulf of Mexico.

The way I see it is if you are a serious hunter of Mule Deer you ought to take a couple a cats at least during you adult hunting career - and if you are a serious steward of wildlife here in the southeast you must start trapping coyotes and you must kill them. Best to hit em hard winter and spring to to break up pack units. Our biggest probelem is the widespread practice of professional coyote trappers "selling" their catch 'live' supposedly to catch and run pens. I know many of these end up being loose again.

sickening guys - but we can do something. Trapping is good woodsmanship that all bowhunters should develop - it will make you a better bowhunter too.

Good Luck<><
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[Alexander Traditional]

I almost hate to post on this since it seems to be getting so far off of traditional bow hunting,but here goes anyway. Predators and prey have been seeing the ebb and flow of things well before we ever got here. When prey gets scarce the predators start to die off and all sorts of things set in and then the tides turn in the favor of the prey and they make a comeback. That's just the way nature intended it,we as man have made a big impact on extra hunting and habitat loss,it's just something we all have to deal with.

[Sharptop]

Couple of points. I know folks who brought in coyotes in the 80's in a high fence area in SW GA. They also migrated here . Really exploded the last decade. I was in a hunt club just north of metro Atlanta two years ago which was trying to rebound from low deer numbers. 3500 acres and we trapped 77 coyotes in one year.

As far as the balance of nature, it may be correct to suggest that prey/deer species will balance OVER TIME. But who wants 10-15 years of virtually no deer in an area? Also you have to consider that coyotes will be sustained by human activity even if the deer population is destroyed. Deer only provide sustenance for a few months during the birthing season. Coyotes eat mostly fruit and vegetables during much of the year.

[eminart]

Originally posted by Sharptop:
 Also you have to consider that coyotes will be sustained by human activity even if the deer population is destroyed. Deer only provide sustenance for a few months during the birthing season. Coyotes eat mostly fruit and vegetables during much of the year.

I disagree. It takes a certain amount of food to sustain the predator population at the point where it currently is. That already includes any food they're getting from humans. If the deer population drops, the predator population drops. If the mouse population drops, the predator population drops. If the food in garbage bags by the street population drops, the predator population drops.

[lpcjon2]

Sharptop,
   We have killed deer( adult does and bucks) that have had the hind quarters ripped up by coyotes, they hunt in packs and size doesnt matter when they are hungry.