Well I just checked what I have in my own stock I shoot Duravanes 4" helical off the shelf out of two bows so far with real good results. I have been messing around with them for a year or two. I started out with vanetec's but they are waay! too stiff, I found the duravanes have a softer spine and I shoot them cock vane out, that way only one vane has the potential to hit the rest. The two bows I shoot them out of are: grayling Grizzly@60#s and a Martin Savannah@60#s both launch very well out of my bows and they fly true all the way to the target. Talk about quiet?? you can't do any better. When I first started to experiment I was shooting them out of a Super K @ 65#s and I didnt have enough point weight so they corkscrewed all the way to the target, not good!!! I have since solved the problem If I can swing the trip this year to Colorado for third season, I will bring my bow again and they will be fletched with my duravanes in the snow.