Bareshafting First Attempt Ever

[Scattergun2570]

I tried to bareshaft my Gamegetter 500 Spine arrows. I am shooting a 45lb Martin Savannah. I am not 100% sure what I am drawing,but I believe its around 27" Anyway, I started from 30 1/2", & 125gr tip,and worked all the way down to an arrow a bit over 27". The arrow was tail left indicating soft the whole time. I think I am close to the right length. I have gotten off some shots at that length that flew almost 100% straight. Then I get some shots that go left,and even a couple that showed stiff to the right. Now,the weirdest part is that when I cant the bow,instead of shooting straight up,it shows soft tail left again!  Can this be cause by a low nocking point? Ok,,I have no idea whats up. HELP?

[Scattergun2570]

ttt

[BOHO]

sounds like your not being consistent to me. maybe different draw length or grip placement. torquing perhaps? make sure to do everything the same everytime and see if you wont get consistent results. Im not a big bareshaft person but a lot of people do it.

[ericmerg]

your inconsistant in something could be drawlength, release, bow pressure etc... are you smacking your armgaurd when you shoot? when i do i get a stiff sign

[Scattergun2570]

Originally posted by BOHO:
sounds like your not being consistent to me. maybe different draw length or grip placement. torquing perhaps? make sure to do everything the same everytime and see if you wont get consistent results. Im not a big bareshaft person but a lot of people do it.

Well how do you find the right arrow length if you dont bareshaft? Im open to suggestions

[Scattergun2570]

Originally posted by ericmerg:
your inconsistant in something could be drawlength, release, bow pressure etc... are you smacking your armgaurd when you shoot? when i do i get a stiff sign

I dont wear an armguard..never had the string hit me,even when I first started shooting.

[ericmerg]

paper tuning is really good too i use both bareshaft and papertune i paper tune to get it really really close (1" tear or less) and then bareshaft to finish it off

[agtex42]

You can measure your drawlength by attaching a clothespin to your arrow in front of the riser.  Draw to your anchor and the pin will slide up the shaft allowing you to measure from the nock valley to the pin to find your draw.  I like to draw 2-3 times to verify an accurate "pin placement" before putting it on a tape.

When bareshaft tuning you should only be concerned with the impact point of the arrow in relation to your fletched shafts, the orientation of the shaft (nock left or right) is not a good indicator of your tune due to the inconsistent nature of most target butt materials.

Canting the bow will make a difference in the dynamic spine of an arrow, and it's important that you bareshaft tune using the same form you use for normal shots otherwise you will get false indications.

How are your groups with fletched arrows only?  Others have already alluded to it, but inconsitency in your shot will make it almost impossible to get a good tune.  

I like to get my bareshafts impacting 1-2" right of my fletched groups at 20 yards, adding feathers will stiffen it up just enough to bring the groups into perfect alignment.

Keep the questions coming, I'm sure with a few more details you'll find what you need to get on the right track.

[Charlie Lamb]

I'm not sure which bare shaft method you are using, but this one is not only popular, but very effective.
  bare shaft tuning

[JimB]

I will second that bow tuning information.If you read,and I mean READ,OL's tuning information and follow it to the letter,you can get an arrow tuned in very short order.

Some very important points are:
1.Only make one change at a time.Nock point,point weight,shaft length,different type shaft,whatever,one thing at a time.Fix that issue,then move on.
2.Don't cut anything without verifying first with point weight.Changing point weights can tell you in seconds,exactly where you need to be.This can only be done if you have a variety of field point weights on hand.I wouldn't even start to bareshaft without a variety of points on hand.Points are way cheaper than shafts which you may screw up,experimenting with cutting.

Using OL's system,I can tune a set of arrows in minutes,just by changing point weight.If it is stiff,add point weight,25 grs at a time till it is right.If you want to change shaft length,get it tuned with point weight first and figure 1" of shaft length equals app. 25 grs of point weight.That is just a rough,rule of thumb.It will vary with each setup.

I draw 29" and like a 30" arrow,so I order my shaft precut to 30" and tune by point weight.Then I setup my broadhead to match.

At 30 1/2",those arrows should be too stiff with just a 125 gr head.Cutting them shorter only compounds the problem,meaning you need a much heavier point which I'm guessing-you don't have.

If you follow a very simple but systematic method like OL lays out,tuning is easy and can go very quickly.If you go in to it with no real direction,you can chase your tail from now until doomsday and never see good arrow flight.

If I were shooting a 45 # bow with a 30 1/2",.500 spine arrow,I would need app. a 175 gr point.You won't be the same,as you draw less.You may need more weight.If you want to cut them to 27",you probably need to start tuning with 225 grs and be prepared to go higher if you need to.

If I were you,I would:
1.Order some field point test kits.
2.Read OL's tuning method till you fully understand it.
3.Start with your full length arrows and find the point weight that they like before doing anything else.Forget canting the bow right now.Only change one thing at a time.

[Easykeeper]

The link posted is a good.

It might bet that your shafts are just a little weak.  One of my bows is 45#@28", and even though I draw a little longer (around 28.5") that bow likes a 31" .400 spine arrow.  I haven't shot that bow for a while but I think the point weight was either 125 or 150 grains.

I just noticed I totally contradicted JimBs post above.  I guess that shows how you need to take any internet recommendations with a grain of salt.  What works for one might not work for another.  Read the link (click on the tuning tab) and good luck.

[Petrovic]

Hi Scattergun I am in  the same boat as you with tuning my current bow. I started to tune with the nock left and nock right method, but as I kept cutting the shaft it kept showing that I was too weak.

I then switched to the method described above, with fletched and unfletched shafts. I am a bit different in that i want to shoot 225 grain heads so that is what i use. What I did notice straight away is that the fletched arrows flew to where i looked and the bare shafts were weak (as expected) and as i kept trimming the arrows i saw the bare shafts get closer and closer to the fletched arrows.

I am now down to 30.5 inches in length and would guess that i may need to only go down another inch before the two group together. Surprisingly this arrow setup on Stu Miller's calucator shows that my arrows are 20 lb under spined, go figure.

All i can say is follow the method above and you will get great results. Take it from someone who wasted 6 arrows on the nock left and nock right method.

[Biathlonman]

I could never get bare shaft tuning to work for me, paper tuning has always been quick, easy and effective.

[Cato]

Bare shafting involves a learning process. It can be frustrating at times. However if you stay with it you will learn things that will help you in the future.

A shaft that is too stiff can bounce off of the shelf and give you a misleading weak appearance. Not saying this is your issue but something to check.

Keep the bow verticle while testing. Otherwise you will add another variable, IMO.

[Petrovic]

I have just finished bareshafting and this is the arrow setup I ended up with.

Easton axis .400 spine, 30.5 inch length
2 x 100 grain brass inserts
225 grain points

my fletched and unfletched grouped together at these specs and this is out of a 61 lb @ 26 inch bow. (which is slightly heavier as my drawlength had grown an inch since ordering it).

As I said earlier just shooting bare shafts always showed a weak arrow, all the way down to 27" arrow length. As mentioned by Cato I think the arrow became too stiff and was bouncing off the shelf.

I suggest you give the OL's Tuning method a go it seriously worked for me and surprised the hell out of me as what I ended up with me.

[AWPForester]

X3 on paper tuning and forget about the bare shafting.  It is simply to inconsitent.  Unless your bow is cut way past center, you are not weak either.  Take one fletched arrow, put saran wrap around the insert so as to be able to remove it, start with full length, shoot it with a field tip, see what you got.  I think you will find you can cut that arrow with little trim, cut 1/2 inch at a time.

My specs are the same as yours.  With your setup, a 28-29 inch arrow is going to fly great more than likely.  When you think you got it right, put a broadhead on it, if you don't it will let you know about it.  God Bless

[Brianlocal3]

Here is what I have settled on:   I get a bareshaft or two. Stand back 15 steps or so and shoot. I watch the flight and see how it impacts, when I get relatively straight lflight, no big dips or swoops any one way, I know I'm getting close. Slightly weak and nock high I stop. Then I shoot a fletched at 25-30 yards not really aiming for anything. Just looking at arrow flight.  Then I put on the BH I want to use and shoot from 20 and 30 yards. Again watch the arrow and shooting for one spot. I'm usually good there.  

I just got a doz 2018s in and was "tuned" in about 5 shots. It is very in scientific, and probably the wrong way, but it gets my BHs where I want them. I couldn't tell you how the bareshaft groups with fletched or what my paper tear is , but I can tell you my BH hit what I'm aiming at

[Scattergun2570]

Originally posted by Petrovic:
Hi Scattergun I am in  the same boat as you with tuning my current bow. I started to tune with the nock left and nock right method, but as I kept cutting the shaft it kept showing that I was too weak.

I then switched to the method described above, with fletched and unfletched shafts. I am a bit different in that i want to shoot 225 grain heads so that is what i use. What I did notice straight away is that the fletched arrows flew to where i looked and the bare shafts were weak (as expected) and as i kept trimming the arrows i saw the bare shafts get closer and closer to the fletched arrows.

I am now down to 30.5 inches in length and would guess that i may need to only go down another inch before the two group together. Surprisingly this arrow setup on Stu Miller's calucator shows that my arrows are 20 lb under spined, go figure.

All i can say is follow the method above and you will get great results. Take it from someone who wasted 6 arrows on the nock left and nock right method.

Yeah I think the same thing was happening to me.. lots of weak sign,,cutting went all the way down to just over 27",,doesn`t seem right at all.