I have done it folks, after trying dozens of different arrows I have found an arrow that shoots like a lazer beam out of my longbow and recurve. It is the Victory VAP! For my 45# Abbott recurve I'm shooting 400 spines with steel penetrator inserts and 145 grain points, giving me 235 grains up front. For my 50# Sky Longbow I'm running the 450 spines with the steel inserts and 125 grain points for a total of 215 grains up front. Both sets of arrows I left full length for weight and I fletched em up with 5" parabolics in a nice right helical. I recommend to everyone to give the VAPs a try on some of your trad stuff, I think you'll be surprised!