Internal point weight and footing jig/Opinions

[Ralphie]

Anyone have any experience with the "Internal point weight and footing jig", sold by the big archery supply? It puts a hole down the center of the point end of an arrow. Into which one inserts a 1/"rod or a nail. The result is a reinforced tip, and a weighted tip.
thanks

[Prairie Drifter]

Yep. Works great.

[SlowBowinMO]

Works very well and doesn't seem to have as much affect on spine as simply piling on point weight might.  Realistically speaking 2-3 inches is about as far as you can go, beyond that can get tricky.

[oldbohntr]

Yes, it does work.  But it could be better.  We have used 1/8 rod, preferably brass. It adds about 29 gpi.  But, the drill that came with the kit is too short....you can only drill less than a couple of inches deep.  I bought a 12" drill bit in 9/64" and experimented with deeper holes.  Finally settled on about 3" depth as the most I can control.  

The problem, in my opinion, is it is a great idea that suffers from sloppy tolerances. The hole in the jig is too large and the "guide bushing portion of the jig is too short-only about an inch.  So the bit can wander in an arc, and the varitions in grain help it wander.  If you are not extremely careful you will drill out the side of the shaft- even with a 3" depth.  However, we also found that you can stop the instant you see that happening, and it doesn't cause a big problem.  You don't want an air gap under the rod anyway(as it will weaken the shaft greatly at that point), and the tiny hole in the side is left filled with epoxy.  With proper care when drilling, I have that happen with about one shaft in a dozen.  I only use those for practice or stumping, but the surprising thing is there is no apparent difference between how those shafts shoot, compared to the others. (maybe that's a clue to how well I shoot, huh?)

Some observations based on several hundred shafts so far:  
The misalignment of hole or rod seems to mean very little.  I think the difference is that it is close to the centerline of the shaft, and the same amount of eccentricity or unbalance might be much worse if it were on the outside of the shaft surface.  

The shaft is strengthened only if the hole is filled to the bottom with epoxy and the weakest point of the shaft is moved to right behind the reinforcement.  It is tougher than before, but if you hit something hard enough, that's where it will break.  

We've had shafts which hit something hard, and the cedar/rod actually bent behind the point, but didn't break.  I was actually able to straighten a couple of those, just as with aluminum, and shot them again. Once again, little apparent loss of accuracy(!), but you'd have to think the wood could have been weakened at that point.  Not advising using such shafts, just curious if they could be straightened.

It would cost too much, but if I can ever find a machinist who would do me a favor, I'd have him make the same thing except to make the guide bushing(the part with the small hole)smaller in diameter and longer.  It would then allow less slop when drilling and the process would be much more accurate.  Then you could drill deeper and get more FOC and I'm sure, better accuracy.  

Once again, it's a good idea.  I like the idea better than woody weights.

[Ralphie]

Tom

Thank you so much for your extensive answer. I am not clear on just how the jig works, though. I have a good, Milwaukee hand drill. If I understand correctly, I am thinking the drill bit supplied is supplied with a 9/16th drill bit. The gizzmo is essentially a collar which allows a 9/16 hole to be drilled down an arrow ?
Yes ?
I like the idea of this jig, (I think that is what it is called), to help me from nocking off points with 3D shooting. I am not a hunter.

Your experience with this is enough to tell me you see problems that could present itself, and cause the effectiveness to suffer.

If you ever find a machinist who could make an improved version. I would for sure be interested.

[hart2hart]

Ralphie,
Sent you a Email
Mike in Texas

[dnovo]

I have one of these and it works great. It is a 9/64 drill bit, not 9/16. Mine jig does not have any play at all for the bit to wander off like Toms does. I also have a 6" long bit to go deeper if I want.
Usually what I do is drill the length of the regular bit, then take the arrow from the jig and drill a bit deeper by hand. The hole drilled acts as a guide and I don't have any wander problem.
The best thing I have found to use for inserting in the shaft is a nail. You can take different size and material to adjust weight. For example a 16 penny galvanized casing nail is significantly heavier than a standard steel casing nail. I can get a 100  grains with a snug fit with those using 2 1/2 to 3" . a different nail might only come up to 40-60 grains. And they are cheap. Worth experiment with. It really toughens up a wood arrow where they always want to break right behind the point. I also use it to adjust arrow weight and spine.

[Ralphie]

dnovo,
That's good to know, you have had success. I think it is something I am going to try.
thanks!

[kyfiddledave]

I whittled one out of a scrap piece of steel using my Harbor Freight table top lathe- used parts of a 16 penny nail in varying lengths till I got good arrow flight. Worked like a champ! It is a bit of a challenge sometimes to keep the drill bit centered as you bore into the shaft, but not too bad. After finding the right length/weight, I started coating the nail with hot melt glue before I pushed it into the shaft just to keep it snug.

[Orion]

I had a machinist build a jig for me and have been messing around with internal footings for a half-dozen years or so. (Actually, I was putting nails in the front of my shafts 50 years ago, but wasn't doing it to increase FOC then.  Just a way to salvage an arrow with a cheap, digger point.)

It does work to increase weight at the front of the shaft.  Not convinced it increases the strength of the shaft behind the head.  Just breaks the shaft a little further up.  

Since I started doing this, a lot of heavier glue on field points and broadheads have come on the market, obviating the need for the internal footing.  Drilling 2 1/2 to 3 inches into the shaft is about all that is practical and that only adds about 60-80 grains, depending on the rod used.  Can easily add that much weight now with heavier points/heads.

The other problem one runs into is that one can quickly run out of spine with wood shafts.  If you shoot a moderately heavy bow and/or have a long draw length, you may not be able to get wood shafts in heavy enough spine  to handle the increased internal footing/point weight.

On deer size critters, I've gone back to shooting moderate weight broadheads -- 130-175 grains.  If I want to really front load an arrow, I switch to carbons.  They can be had in much stiffer spines, and at the same spine as wood, they recover much faster.