What causes fish tailing?

[Echo62]

I just got some new arrows today, shot them at lunch and they are fish tailing left and right. Not sure what causes this. I shoot 53# at my 28" draw. The arrows are 29.5" POC 60-65# spine. I didn't notice this problem with the Easton Axis arrows I was shooting before. Maybe I notice it more since these arrows are heavier and slower so I can see them better in flight? Any suggestions?

Thanks, Keith

[Blaino]

right and left is spine.  try different point weights and see if that heldp.

up and down is nock point.....

try a bearshaft and see what it tells ya.

[Alexander Traditional]

I agree with what Blaino said. Go to Easton's PDF format of Easton's arrow tuning guide. It gives a good run down of a lot of tuning issues.

[macbow]

Do they group together. Left or right of target?
Bare shafting should help you determine if stiff or light on spine.

Fine tuning can be done by building the arrow pass out a little along with trimming the arrow length or adding point,weight.

First it's a matter of what the problem is before fixing it.

[Orion]

Depending on how your arrow shelf is cut, they could be too stiff.  Axis arrows are about half the diameter of woodies so their center sits closer to the center of the bow compared to wood.  That means they can be heavier spined.  Or, looked at another way, using thicker arrows has the same effect as building out the side plate, which requires less spine.

Of course, form (plucking) and brace height (too low) can also cause fishtailing, but too much spine is also often a culprit. Could up the point weight a bit and see what happens.  Good luck.

[Echo62]

Thanks for the advice! Everyones input is greatly appreciated.    Being a relative newbie and not knowing anyone much locally in trad archery, you guys on here are a real asset!  

[7 Lakes]

Cut the feathers off an arrow or two and tell us if the shaft is going in nock to the right or to the left.  Better start off close to the target.

[Echo62]

Mike, thanks, I'll try that tonight or tomorrow and report back. Another thing I noticed today is these new arrows are much more sensitive to release quality than the Axis arrows are. If my release is dead on, the arrows fish tail far less and still hit where I'm looking from 15 yards. If my release is just a little bit off (not plucking, just not smooth) then I get alot more fish tailing and the arrow impacts 8 to 10 inches off  , usually to the left. My brace height is set where Ron suggested about 7.5". Also the Breed is cut 1\\8 short of center without alot of room to work with on the shelf.

[Shawn Leonard]

Wellfor one the Breed are hard shooters, meaning good performers so add 10#s to bow weight at your draw at least, than add 5#s for every inch arrow is over 28"s and another %3s for every 25 grains over 125 for point weight, I find it funny all the suggestions and no one knows what weight head you are shooting. So lets say 125 grain head. That is 53#s plus 10#sis 63#s and than another 8#s for the arrow length puts you at 70#s minimum. I almost guarantee that your arrows are weak. You should be shooting a minimum of 70-75#s spine and I bet dollars to donuts that something around 72#s in a woodie would be perfect for you. Shawn

[Shawn Leonard]

Should also say that they are probably so weak you are getting an opposite re-action as normally if an arrow is too stiff and you are a righty it will hit left. I have a bud who shoots a Breed and his is 51#s at 28"s(his draw) and he shoots a 29.5" woodie with 160 grains of point weight and spined 75-80#s, if he went to 125 grain point he would shoot 70-75# spine. Shawn

[Builder]

Agree with everything above especially the bare shafting but one other thing you might check (longshot) is if the knock is too tight on your string. I had some similar issues with some knocks I had, once I filed them down some they flew perfect.

[Echo62]

Shawn, sorry I left the point weight out.     125's. Would cutting them off an inch and going to a lighter point help? The arrows are heavy enough (530 grains) that I think they would be ok with a little less weight.
And once again, thanks for all the help guys!

[Echo62]

Shawn, I draw 28", Ron said my breed would be 53# at that length. Arrows are 29.5". I just went out and shot the same arrow 15 times from 15 yards. I feel like my release was very clean. My accuracy was good, better than earlier today. It was dark enough that I couldn't see well enough to tell about fish tailing. When I pulled the arrows out of the bag all 15 were tail left.   I went in and got an old recurve I have that's 50
" @ 28" and shot the same arrow 5 times with that bow. All five were straight when I pulled them out of the bag. What do you think?

[Echo62]

Builder, I checked the nocks and they are not tight. Wish that had been the problem.

Thanks, Keith