Help with Paper Testing

[JApple]

Testing newly made woodies... started with basic setup at about six to seven feet.  Tears are showing good spine however tears are always indicating "nock high".  When I dropped it down to around 3/8",etc, it shows way nock high like it's bouncing off shelf.  I even moved knock point to 1" and then started down.  It seems that knock point around 3/4" did the best but I never got the perfect hole like the diagrams.  Could this be a result of too soft paper,  too far away,etc?  I shoot split finger.  Appreciate advice as always,

J

[SAVIOUR68]

JAPPLE  at that distance the arrow is till in paradox and I would say its normal step back further and try. Are your shafts fletched ?

[JApple]

Saviour,

yes, they are fletched.  How far would you say would be right?  Ten to fifteen feet? Thanks!

[SAVIOUR68]

Try it  at 10-15 feet, make sure that your nocks are not to tight on the string. Are you also using a tie on nock above and below the arrow nock

[Drewster]

I do my paper tuning from 15'.  And try to set up your target so you're shooting about shoulder level.  Let us know how that works.

[JApple]

Thanks for advice.  I did shoot further back, more like 12 yds and the hole was perfect.  I'm gonna move up to fifteen feet tomorrow.  I agree I was probably too close to the target.  I'll let ya'll know how it goes.  Thanks!

[SAVIOUR68]

JAPPLE IMO wood takes longer to recover from paradox than carbon but I just love shooting my woodies       , sounds like you are good to go.

[Fletcher]

I do my paper tuning from six feet, maybe 10 sometimes at the most.  Form issues, such as uneven finger pressure or grip pressure and make the arrow fly tail high or low.  It doesn't take much distance for the fletch to start to straighten an arrow, which is why they usually look good at 10 yards.  I fletch my test arrows with smaller than usual fletch just so they don't have as much influence on the flight.

[AkDan]

of course its going to be perfect..its a fletched shaft and you're giving it time to correct itself.  The idea behind paper tuning is to know what its doing, making the changes so the fletching has little error to correct!!!  Start with bareshafts!!!!!!  the point is to know exactly whats happening so you can make the right change.

I like standing a couple yards away from the paper.  shooting bare shafts.  

At some point I'll stop with the paper and start shooting bare shafts at bales.   at one point I could do it at 40 yards but havent in years.  If they fly good at 20 and 30 with no fletching you can be assured not only is your bow tuned or dang close your form is pretty good also.  Its not impossible to do!

Than move to group testing, bh's and field points, fletched/unfletched and you'll be spot on!  your shooting will show it.   Mine is terrible right now from 3 years of little shooting...time for some change!

oh one last thing about nock high.  nock high to a point is ok to a degree.  You might have a bow thats not tiller right for your style of shooting.   I had a robertson longbow that I could never get right.  Play with hand pressure and finger pressure and you'll get all kinds goofy different readings.

[xtrema312]

I have some instructions from an old paper tuning rack.  It says to stand at 6' and shoot.  I picked them up at an archery shop in my areas a week or so ago.  You make listed adjustment which includes adjusting rest and plunger pressure and brace /draw weight for left right. It also says that a little nock high and weak is okay and better than trying to get too fine tuned if you are having trouble getting a perfect rip.  

I had been doing it at farther distances and shooting 3 under. I can get bullet holes consistent when tuning from farther.  I get bullet holes from 10’ on out. I have seen it many times in the last couple years shooting 3 under.  When I go to bare shaft shooting, my bare shaft doesn’t fly right.  I have not been able to get both the paper tune and the bare shaft to fly right all the time at the same time.  

This last week I was seeing this on a bow I am tuning.  My bare shaft was acting like my nock was too high or too low and arrow hitting the self.  It went stiff for sure when I raised my nock point.  I have found I tend to tune into a too low and stiff tune paper tuning from longer distances.  Because I am shooting 3 under, I can be real consistent and run the arrow off the shelf.  It will stabilize quickly and shoot well with feathers, but bare shaft will not fly nice.  Just this last week when I got my bare shaft flying nice I was nock high and weak a little at 10’ or so in paper, but when I shot at 6’ I got a nice hole.  So now I am thinking there is something to tuning in paper at that 6’ where the arrow makes its first main flex and then understanding that it will flex a bit more over distance before it settled down.     I think this is the  way to go for me because it is more forgiving than the other way where a little change could cause issues.

[AkDan]

when you're out at 10' and out are you using feathers or bare shafts?   Probably a dumb question, as there is no way for the shaft to correct itself without feathers.   Which is the main reason I posted to begin with.  

paper tuning DOES work...or should it say CAN.   Just like group testing (which is easier, kinda like walking into a fast food joint vs driving through the drive through.   they both get the job done, one takes slightly more effort)  That said the one that takes more effort I personally believe gets you better results in this case for MOST guys.  

Some of your issues with bareshafts/paper tune not being consistent could be you!   how often do you check your BH?   strings move...both strung AND unstrung, which is going to change how your bow shoots.  B50 is worse than the 'less'stretch strings like ff d97 etc.   Skinny strings (atleast mine) move also when stringing and unstringing more than my old 15 strand d97.  If they move enough they'll greatly change your tuning! I rarely unstring anymore, but try it some time after being strung for a month check your bh before you unstring it, and than restring it a few days later.   It could also come to you and your consistency behind the bow, on the string or a host of other small factors that creep in and out from day to day.   Bareshaft shooting/ paper shooting will show you these immediatly.  The problem people have with it is this.  they dont believe or have been led to belive they dont shoot good enough to bareshaft tune....ie their shooting flaws get in the way of real results.   If you shoot more than a couple days a year I dont believe this to be true.  Sure some guys are michael jordans of the bow world and other guys like myself should probably stick to using them as canoe paddles.   Those dream team people can do no wrong and people like myself do no right.   The difference is usually form....consistency.   They go hand in hand!  

There is no wrong way if it works.  There IS easier ways.   Shoot enough arrows and you'll get a consistent reading bareshafting/papertuning.  Dont move on just one shot!  Its quite easy to bareshaft out to 20 yards....the farther you go, the closer you have to be to perfection in spine, form, consistency, bow tuning.  A few twists off on the string will break a POC at 40! If it doesnt fly, your tuning is off...the final question becomes what is 'good enough'?   The more distance you add the more those small flaws show their ugly heads.  Ad a bh on a rainy day at 25 yards with a little wind with a poorly tuned arrow...goofy things can happen!

the closer that bare shaft flies, the better things will be with feathers all around!